Congested Area?

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down into
without hitting any person or property.

--
Dallas

I would suggest that between the highway and the marina is congested. Beyond
the marina I see some oil farm tanks.. beyond that.. from this perspective
it appears to be "non-congested".. but you really can't tell until you get
closer.

I could find no firm definition of congested in FAR Part 1 or AIM.
Anyone else?


BT

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down
into
without hitting any person or property.

--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down into
without hitting any person or property.

--
Dallas

For the most part I would concider it "other than congested area",
but the only opinion that counts is the person in charge of the
hearing/trial.

Personally I just love catch-all, undefined phrases in laws like
"congested area", "conduct unbecoming", and "reasonable and prudent".


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down
into
without hitting any person or property.

I've always figured that any area marked in yellow on the sectional is going
to be considered a "congested area". That gives you some place to start,
but there's lots of places that aren't yellow which are going to be
considered a "congested area".

The FAA has consistently said the determination will be made on a
case-by-case basis.

So the way I figure it the answer to your question is the same one for
"should I go around?" If you have to ask yourself the question, the answer
is always "yes".

Dallas wrote:
What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?



For me, that is a congested area. Why? Just because I have a strong
feeling that if I were to do something bad in that airspace, the FAA
would consider it so. Basically, there are a lot of people down there,
and those oil tanks would up the ante.

that was the rule given to me when I first started flying over 30yrs ago..
but the charts do not keep up with rapid growth..
if you can't land without touching something other than earth..
it's congested.
BT

"Mike" wrote in message
news:7oddk.720$HY.194@trnddc01...
"Dallas" wrote in message
...

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall
development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down
into
without hitting any person or property.

I've always figured that any area marked in yellow on the sectional is
going to be considered a "congested area". That gives you some place to
start, but there's lots of places that aren't yellow which are going to be
considered a "congested area".

The FAA has consistently said the determination will be made on a
case-by-case basis.

So the way I figure it the answer to your question is the same one for
"should I go around?" If you have to ask yourself the question, the
answer is always "yes".

"BT" wrote
that was the rule given to me when I first started flying over 30yrs
ago.. but the charts do not keep up with rapid growth..

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights, lights in buildings, etc. It is an aid to night
visual navigation.

Bob Moore

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:15:11 -0500, Dallas
wrote:


What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down into
without hitting any person or property.

The FAA does not define "congested area". If the FAA wants you, any
area that you are flying over will be congested, if it advances their
cause. Didn't they define an area of ocean off of the Hawaiian shore
(not over the beach), as a congested area sometime in the past year?
RNR

On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,

Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I've heard the question asked many times, but never got an answer.

--
Dallas

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:57:13 -0400, rnruss52 wrote:

Didn't they define an area of ocean off of the Hawaiian shore
(not over the beach), as a congested area sometime in the past year?

That's the exact article I was talking about. They suspended a Gulfstream
pilot for 150 days for making low passes while filming a production.

The first 2 passes were offshore along a beach. The FAA called the beach a
congested area because they considered it an "open air assembly of
persons". - I don't have a big problem with that as there were surfers
down below when he did it.

The second pass gives me some heartburn. The pilot made a gear down, flaps
down low pass over the runway (with permission of the airport manager) and
the FAA board implicitly held that the airfield was a congested area. -

If they call an airport a congested area then my definition of a congested
area is completely invalid.

--
Dallas