EU Heavy Bomber ideas?

"Peter Kemp" wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:05:18 -0500, Alan Minyard
wrote:

So the Dutch Apaches (D model IIRC but without the radar) that have
been deployed in the Balkans don't count, nor do the Italian
Mangustas, nor do the C-17s that the UK already has? And strategic
lift in general is recognised as a weakness, hence the A-400 orders.

Well if "strategic lift in general is recognised as a weakness" most of
Europe would appear to be wasting their money on A-400 purchases.

"Ragnar" a écrit dans le message de
...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message

I never said they did, only that the UK has a military that actually
works.

To be entirely fair, so does France.
They do? When did they last actually DO anything with it?


What about using your Internet access to get one or two clues about how the
world *actually* goes and went during those last 20 years?

France has done especially well in African messes.
So has Belgium. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.


So hasn't the United States in Somalia.


Before the U.S. bombed Gaddafi, for example,
the French had a small army in Chad (was it Chad? oh God I can't
remember) that whupped Gaddafi's invasion.

Yes, and as I recall, the US had a large hand in getting the French there
and then supporting them.


A "large hand"? Would you care to develop? Or is it just another outward
sign of your "nothing-happens-on-this-earth-without-us" syndrom?


ArVa

In message , ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
writes
In article ,
James Hart wrote:
peacekeeping fleet, to be manned by the Austrian navy.

Glad to see the quality of (probably) the second-best navy of the first
half of the last century recognised. The Austrian navy in Big Mistake
One were /bloody/ good. They saw the back of the RN in a serious
amd fairly equal cruiser action, which IIRC no-one else managed for
100-odd years before (and never since).
Also the first navy to use organic ASW air for convoy escort (1915,
I believe). The Austrian navy was a serious force. Just be glad the
german navy never matched its quality.

Delete 'Austrian', Insert 'Swiss'?

Mike.
--
M.J.Powell

From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 6/21/2004 12:43 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

DunxC wrote:

And what heavy bombers does the RAF have exactly?

We still have one - and we used it across the Channel the other week.

True, but spare parts for Lancs are getting kind of scarce.

Dan, U.S.Air Force, retired

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
Interesting comment, since the EU does not have "modern fighters"

Eurofighter? Rafale? Gripen?

or
strike aircraft.

Tornado GR.4? Harrier GR.9?

They also have no organic strategic transport aircraft

We're assured that the A400M will be wonderful.

and
no usable attack helos.

Lynx AH.7? Tiger? Mangusta?

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
In message , Alan Minyard
writes

...

They also have no organic strategic transport aircraft

We're assured that the A400M will be wonderful.

It might have had a chance if France and Germany had never entered the
program.

In article ,
(DunxC) wrote:

They claim they don't like that, but it
speaks volumes that they have all (except for the UK) let their military
budgets and capabilities decline to ludicrous levels.

And what heavy bombers does the RAF have exactly?

He didn't say they had any.

Just that everyone, except for the UK, have let their militaries decline
badly.

In article ,
"James Hart" wrote:

Henry J Cobb wrote:
David E. Powell wrote:
If the EU is looking for more reach without carriers, how about heavy
bombers? Certainly something on the order of B-1B as far as airframe
might be a goal, or something less radical. It depends on their
budget and requirements, I guess. From bases in Europe they could
cover much of Africa, the Middle East, etc.

Of course if they wanted to go somewhere with fighters they might
need escort, etc.

Actually the EU member states have carefully studied the relative
effectiveness of the USN and USAF and most have concluded that the
correct platforms for power projection in the future will be carriers
and submarines. ;-)

...and in a typical EU way of thinking the French vetoed the subs, the Brits
vetoed the carriers and the whole thing went to a vote. The net result is
that a committee came up with the conclusion that combining both roles would
be best so we'll shortly be announcing carrier subs as the new EU
peacekeeping fleet, to be manned by the Austrian navy.


Are they going to name it the "von Trapp"?

"ArVa" no.arva.spam_at_no_os.fr wrote in message
...
"Ragnar" a écrit dans le message de
...

"Cub Driver" wrote in message

I never said they did, only that the UK has a military that actually
works.

To be entirely fair, so does France.
They do? When did they last actually DO anything with it?


What about using your Internet access to get one or two clues about how
the
world *actually* goes and went during those last 20 years?

What about providing some relevant cites?


France has done especially well in African messes.
So has Belgium. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.


So hasn't the United States in Somalia.


Before the U.S. bombed Gaddafi, for example,
the French had a small army in Chad (was it Chad? oh God I can't
remember) that whupped Gaddafi's invasion.

Yes, and as I recall, the US had a large hand in getting the French
there
and then supporting them.


A "large hand"? Would you care to develop? Or is it just another outward
sign of your "nothing-happens-on-this-earth-without-us" syndrom?

Well, lets see. France had no strategic airlift, so the US stepped in to
get trrops and equipment into country. France couldn't support themselves
once deployed, so the US stepped in again.

In article ,
Steve Hix writes:
In article ,
"James Hart" wrote:

Are they going to name it the "von Trapp"?

THat wouldn't be unreasonable - George von Trapp was one the early
submarine test pilots, and had a very successful record in WW 1,
inlcluding sinking the Italian Protected Cruiser Leon Gambretta in the
first night attack by a submarine, and sinking an Italian sup iv one
of the first sub-sub torpedo duels. The Austro-Hungarian submarine
force was probably the best of that war. They acheived an overall hit
rate of 90% of torpedos fired.

His first wife, the mother of most of the kids, was the
Granddaughter of Robert Whitehead, the inventer of the self-propelled
("Automobile" back then) torpedo.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster