Commercial 250nm VFR flight - all 3 landings on the same day?

"BT" wrote in message
news

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
FAR Part 1 and Part 61 have a requirement for Cross-country.
%0 NM is the benchmark for C-X to count when logging, beyond
26 NM requires student pilots to be endorsed for X-C.

Technically, a flight with multiple lands must have a first
leg of 51 NM and be followed by a landing every 5 miles for
three hundred miles and they'd all be X-C creditable toward
X-C requirements, but the LONG CROSS-COUNTRY requires a
single 250 mile leg between landings, the required number of
landings in the C-X section should be a different airports.



Where does it say a "single 250nm leg"?
I say.. 61.129 does not, It says a trip of at least 300nm with 3 landings
and one landing at least 250nm straight line from the starting airport.

Jims making it up as he goes along

That's why Hawaii has an exception.



"Chris" wrote in message
...
|
| "Peter" wrote in message
| ...
|
| This may seem strange to Americans but pilots doing FAA
| certificates/ratings outside the USA are doing them
under a regime
| where you never know which US$500/checkride DPE you are
going to get,
| or indeed if one will turn up at all when you have done
your training.
|
| I did my IR in Arizona for this reason, but examiners
are again
| becoming available outside the USA which is why I am
trying to do the
| Commercial stuff here.
|
| In England, the 300nm flight is difficult especially going
250nm from the
| start point. It invariably means its an international trip
or over a lot of
| water.
|
| I manage to squeeze my in by a trip from Southend to Lands
End and back to
| Elstree via Plymouth and Henstridge.
|
| The thought of having to go to France or across to Ireland
was too much and
| the weather was too bad for Scotland (and that would have
meant Glasgow.
|
| When you look at the shape of Great Britain you can see
the problem.
|
|

61.129
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical
miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three
points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least
250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the
longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of
at least 150 nautical miles; and

The intention us a single long leg, not 25 ten mile hops.









"Chris" wrote in message
...
|
| "BT" wrote in message
| news |
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote in message
| ...
| FAR Part 1 and Part 61 have a requirement for
Cross-country.
| %0 NM is the benchmark for C-X to count when logging,
beyond
| 26 NM requires student pilots to be endorsed for X-C.
|
| Technically, a flight with multiple lands must have a
first
| leg of 51 NM and be followed by a landing every 5 miles
for
| three hundred miles and they'd all be X-C creditable
toward
| X-C requirements, but the LONG CROSS-COUNTRY requires a
| single 250 mile leg between landings, the required
number of
| landings in the C-X section should be a different
airports.
|
|
|
| Where does it say a "single 250nm leg"?
| I say.. 61.129 does not, It says a trip of at least
300nm with 3 landings
| and one landing at least 250nm straight line from the
starting airport.
|
| Jims making it up as he goes along
|
|

61.129
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical
miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three
points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least
250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the
longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of
at least 150 nautical miles; and

The intention us a single long leg, not 25 ten mile hops.

I don't see that intent there. IN fact, I see an intent to =allow= a
series of ten mile hops.

"landings at a minimum of three points" (there could easily be more
landings) and "one of which is a straight-line distance of at least
250 nautical miles" (not "one leg at least 250 miles long").

I imagine (and this is my imagination, not an FAA statement) that the
intent is to show competence in navigation, weather decisionmaking, and
ability to operate away from familiar surroundings, all of which are
important.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I suggest you call the nearest FSDO or the FAA in OKC and
ask them, I have.



"Jose" wrote in message
t...
| 61.129
| (i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300
nautical
| miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of
three
| points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at
least
| 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
| However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the
| longest segment need only have a straight-line distance
of
| at least 150 nautical miles; and
|
| The intention us a single long leg, not 25 ten mile
hops.
|
| I don't see that intent there. IN fact, I see an intent
to =allow= a
| series of ten mile hops.
|
| "landings at a minimum of three points" (there could
easily be more
| landings) and "one of which is a straight-line distance of
at least
| 250 nautical miles" (not "one leg at least 250 miles
long").
|
| I imagine (and this is my imagination, not an FAA
statement) that the
| intent is to show competence in navigation, weather
decisionmaking, and
| ability to operate away from familiar surroundings, all of
which are
| important.
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
I suggest you call the nearest FSDO or the FAA in OKC and
ask them, I have.



I don't need too make a phone call, I've already completed the commercial
requirements, my instructor approved the flight, the DPE accepted the
flight.

I "repositioned" from North Las Vegas NV to Mesquite NV, landed and declared
the start of my 300nm x-c. I landed at Leverne Bracket CA for breakfast with
friends, I landed at Gillespie Field in SanDiego for a late lunch with
another friend and refueled, more than 250nm from Mesquite and then I
returned to VGT.

More than 300nm trip from Mesquite to Leverne to Gillespie to North Las
Vegas, and 3 landings (Leverne, Gillespie and North Las Vegas) and more than
250nm to the farthest distant airport, (Mesquite to Gillespie).

Requirement complete and within the scope of the FAR 61.129

BT

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote

In England, the 300nm flight is difficult especially going 250nm from the
start point. It invariably means its an international trip or over a lot
of
water.

I manage to squeeze my in by a trip from Southend to Lands End and back to
Elstree via Plymouth and Henstridge.

The thought of having to go to France or across to Ireland was too much
and
the weather was too bad for Scotland (and that would have meant Glasgow.

When you look at the shape of Great Britain you can see the problem.

True.

I would do it from say Southend to Dublin. 275nm GC distance and if
one bent the leg a bit then it would be 300nm. Then one has to do 2
more landings somewhere, and I guess landings at the same airport
don't count (though the reg doesn't prohibit them).

Or one could do it coming back to the UK; one could land at Southend,
then Lydd, then Shoreham for example. Done.

There is absolutely no doubt that most American based DPEs would
accept my own x/c flights which are much longer e.g.
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/...whole-trip.gif
but the CFI I've got has so far refused. These were with a passenger
though (which the FAQ - if not the FAR - rules out) but I have
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/leax/route1.gif
and back which was solo.

Dublin gives a water crossing that's why I did Southend to Lands End via
Plymouth then back to Elstree via Hens.

The interesting conundrum I had was about getting back late i.e. after
sunset. The FAR requires the trip to be done VFR but there is no night VFR
in the UK. Its either SVFR or IFR. SVFR only counts in controlled airspace.
So try explaining that we can fly IFR without an instrument rating to a
DPE.
The issue is VMC and IMC as much as VFR and IFR. The difference is subtle
but there is a big difference.

BTW, The FAR makes it clear it has to be solo.

I would do it from say Southend to Dublin. 275nm GC distance and if
one bent the leg a bit then it would be 300nm.

IF this is for the US certificate, then you don't have to bend the legs.
Just land. Then take off and fly another 26 nm in any direction and
land. Now you've flown more than 300 nm. Satisfy the other criteria
and you're done.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I would do it from say Southend to Dublin. 275nm GC distance and if
one bent the leg a bit then it would be 300nm.

IF this is for the US certificate, then you don't have to bend the legs.
Just land. Then take off and fly another 26 nm in any direction and land.
Now you've flown more than 300 nm. Satisfy the other criteria and you're
done.

Jose

Duff trip that one anyway with the need to comply with the Terrorism Act on
a trip to Ireland. Much better going to France where that does not apply.

No, three [ or more] different airports.
§ 61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided
in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a
commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and
single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of
flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be
in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which
includes at least-

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in
§61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least-

(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5
hours must be in a single-engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a
retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch
propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant
seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of
training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable
pitch propeller;

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a
single-engine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of
a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical
miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a
single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting
of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical
miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) 3 hours in a single-engine airplane in preparation for
the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the
date of the test.

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on
the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part,
which includes at least-

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical
miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three
points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least
250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the
longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of
at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10
landings (with each landing involving a flight in the
traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control
tower.

(b) For an airplane multiengine rating. Except as provided
in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a
commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and
multiengine class rating must log at least 250 hours of
flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be
in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which
includes at least-

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in
§61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least-

(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5
hours must be in a multiengine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has
a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch
propellers, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant
seeking a multiengine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training
in a multiengine seaplane that has flaps and a controllable
pitch propeller;

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a
multiengine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a
total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles
from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a
multiengine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of
a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical
miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) 3 hours in a multiengine airplane in preparation for the
practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date
of the test.

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane
or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in
command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized
instructor (either of which may be credited towards the
flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this
section), on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(2)
of this part that includes at least-

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical
miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three
points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least
250 nautical miles from the original departure point.
However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the
longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of
at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10
landings (with each landing involving a flight with a
traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control
tower.



"Peter" wrote in message
...
| Is it OK to fly 300nm and then do three landings at the
*same*
| airport?