Outer Marker

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
THat's how I do it, although I've had instructors doing my IPC ding me for
not
starting the timer on an ILS. As politely as I can, I remind them that
the
times are for a localizer only approach and that if the glideslope screws
the
pooch, I'm going missed.

Don't Time That ILS Approach! -
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182042-1.html

Kerflooey?

Yes. If the glide slope goes kerflooey, you look down for the new numbers.
You only need one - the MDA.

If you have a series of stepdown fixes and you aren't set up to know when
you've passed them, then maybe it's better to go missed than to scramble. But
if what's ahead of you is simple, just grab the MDA and keep going. If you
were on the glide slope, then everything ahead of you is still clear at that
altitude, stepdown or no.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Barry wrote:

When doing an ILS approach, with the glideslope, is it a requirement to be
able to identify the outer marker or a substitute? FAR 91.175(k) lists the
outer marker as one of the "basic ground components" and gives the acceptable
substitutes, but doesn't explicitly say that it's required. The AIM 1-1-9(j)
on "Inoperative Components" mentions the localizer and glideslope, but says
nothing about the outer marker.

If you answer, please give a specific FAA reference that says whether or not
the OM or a substitute is required.

Whenever someone makes a post requesting specific FAA references, you are in
effect asking for someone else to do your research for you an challenging them in
the process. When I see I post like that I recommend you hire a Washington DC
top end aviation law firm and pay for the precision you expect.

I was commenting on the word - which I now have added to my vocabulary...

Thanks,
Michael

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
Kerflooey?

Yes. If the glide slope goes kerflooey, you look down for the new
numbers.
You only need one - the MDA.

If you have a series of stepdown fixes and you aren't set up to know when
you've passed them, then maybe it's better to go missed than to scramble.
But
if what's ahead of you is simple, just grab the MDA and keep going. If
you
were on the glide slope, then everything ahead of you is still clear at
that
altitude, stepdown or no.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Is that the actual sound that the glideslope makes when it goes out?



"dit-dit-dit-dah...kerflouey"


"Michael 182" wrote in
news:rhm1c.170139$jk2.618747@attbi_s53:

I was commenting on the word - which I now have added to my
vocabulary...

Thanks,
Michael

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
Kerflooey?

Yes. If the glide slope goes kerflooey, you look down for the new
numbers. You only need one - the MDA.

If you have a series of stepdown fixes and you aren't set up to know
when you've passed them, then maybe it's better to go missed than to
scramble. But if what's ahead of you is simple, just grab the MDA and
keep going. If you were on the glide slope, then everything ahead of
you is still clear at that altitude, stepdown or no.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Is that the actual sound that the glideslope makes when it goes out?
"dit-dit-dit-dah...Kerflouey"


No, actually it's "Erflooey". I'm using the ICAO convention.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In article ,
(Teacherjh) wrote:


Is that the actual sound that the glideslope makes when it goes out?
"dit-dit-dit-dah...Kerflouey"


No, actually it's "Erflooey". I'm using the ICAO convention.

Jose

Except in Canada, where it's "Kerflouey, eh?"

Only on the Toronto side. In French Canada, it's "Querphlouis".

Roy Smith wrote in
:

In article ,
(Teacherjh) wrote:


Is that the actual sound that the glideslope makes when it goes out?
"dit-dit-dit-dah...Kerflouey"

No, actually it's "Erflooey". I'm using the ICAO convention.

Jose

Except in Canada, where it's "Kerflouey, eh?"

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:S281c.165778$jk2.607247@attbi_s53...
Seems to me that there was an article in either IFR or Aviation Safety on
the subject of timing ILS approaches, and the consensus of the instructors
quoted seemed to be "don't bother." Rationale was that the miss is based
on
an altitude, not a time, and if the glideslope goes kaflooey the pilot
should wave off, brief the localizer approach or whatever, and start over
again. I don't have a problem with that.

Hm, I'm not sure I follow. Going missed and starting over sounds good, but
to go missed you may need to identify the MAP (if there's a turn there).
And I thought the MAP is based on a *position* which--if the GS is working
and you're following it--is indeed identifiable by an altitude. But if the
GS fails, you might have no means other than your timer to identify the MAP.

--Gary


Bob Gardner

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
No, I got criticized heavily, even after the explanation. For a split
approach, it
isn't jsut the timer, you've also got a different set of altitudes to
commit to
short term memory. I can only remember a few things at once in short
term
memory.
Put too much in, and it is all gone.

Michael wrote:


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:54:52 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" wrote:


"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
THat's how I do it, although I've had instructors doing my IPC ding me for
not
starting the timer on an ILS. As politely as I can, I remind them that
the
times are for a localizer only approach and that if the glideslope screws
the
pooch, I'm going missed.

Don't Time That ILS Approach! -
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182042-1.html

I have no problem with the article as far as not continung the approach as a
LOC-only one, just vecause you are timing it.

The whole reason to tinme the ILS is in case of GS failure, you can still
locate the MAP. An immediate climb is safe, but any turns on the missed
approach segment assume that you initiated the miss at the MAP. If the GS
flags, the only way you can begin to determine where the MAP is, is by the
time.

So, time all ILS approaches, and use the time ONLY to identify the MAP on a
missed approach.