Wings vs. BFR

I always thought taking a wings seminar was a simple way to get your BFR
out of the way. After a little Internet research it seems they require
three hours of dual flight instruction to qualify as a BFR. Is that
correct?

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than the
education... )


--
Dallas

If you are proficient, WINGS is quicker and cheaper. If you can do the maneuvers
to PTS standards the first time your done. No three hours.


On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:04:20 -0500, Dallas
wrote:


I always thought taking a wings seminar was a simple way to get your BFR
out of the way. After a little Internet research it seems they require
three hours of dual flight instruction to qualify as a BFR. Is that
correct?

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than the
education... )

GeorgeC

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:40:50 -0500, GeorgeC wrote:

No three hours.

"Each phase of the Wings program requires three hours of dual flight
instruction and attendance at an FAA-recognized seminar within a 12-month
period."
http://myflightreview.com/other_resources.html

(I went to the actual FAA Wings site but it was so convoluted I couldn't
find anything.)

--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than
the education... )

You may want to look into it further (the three hours requirements have
changed a bit since the Wings program has been revamped, the problem -- I
did post something about it a wee while back -- is that the official doc --
i.e., AC 61-91H -- still describes the old system and has not been
superseeded yet... the new system is described at
http://www.faasafety.gov/ -- good luck making sense of it though, but it
no longer requires 3 hours, you can do it with less...)

In terms of costs, yep, you are right; a BFR will take less time and cost
you less. However, there are a couple of advantages with the Wings
program; for one thing, it is preferable for the CFI, for liability
reasons; when you sign somebody off in a BFR in a glider say, that person
is legal to go in any category and class for which this person is rated...
think about it for a second... and it is your backside on the line should
something happen to that dude during the next two years; no so much with
the Wings program; second, although not officially, I was told that the
FAA might look more favorably on a pilot who participates actively in the
Wings program in case you screw up at one point (up to a point that is,
but it might help).

...and then it can be fun; I mean, I end up flying more than three hours a
year with a CFI anyway (e.g., keeping IFR current, I know it doesn't have
to be a CFI, but that's how I do it; or just for the heck of it)

--Sylvain

Dallas wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:40:50 -0500, GeorgeC wrote:

No three hours.

"Each phase of the Wings program requires three hours of dual flight
instruction and attendance at an FAA-recognized seminar within a 12-month
period."
http://myflightreview.com/other_resources.html

(I went to the actual FAA Wings site but it was so convoluted I couldn't
find anything.)


What you refer to is the old system; still described in the official doc
(AC61-91H) but no longer in force; and you are right, the official Wings
site is utterly confusing, but GeorgeC is right.

--Sylvain

Hi Dallas,
All of the BFR's that I have taken consisted of one hour of classroom work,
and two hours of flight time.

Randy L.

--
Remember: Any landing that you can walk away from,
is a landing that you can be fined, sued, or prosecuted for.

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

I always thought taking a wings seminar was a simple way to get your BFR
out of the way. After a little Internet research it seems they require
three hours of dual flight instruction to qualify as a BFR. Is that
correct?

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than
the
education... )


--
Dallas

My CFII and his chief instructor pilot like WINGS' because the examinee is held
to PST standards. I think the real reason is because he doesn't have to teach
ground school (FAA takes care of that) just fly.

I didn't think of the liable angle, go point.

I check my logbook and the flight time for my last WINGS was 2.2 hours. I was
rusty.

George

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:10:49 -0700, Sylvain wrote:

Dallas wrote:

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than
the education... )

You may want to look into it further (the three hours requirements have
changed a bit since the Wings program has been revamped, the problem -- I
did post something about it a wee while back -- is that the official doc --
i.e., AC 61-91H -- still describes the old system and has not been
superseeded yet... the new system is described at
http://www.faasafety.gov/ -- good luck making sense of it though, but it
no longer requires 3 hours, you can do it with less...)

In terms of costs, yep, you are right; a BFR will take less time and cost
you less. However, there are a couple of advantages with the Wings
program; for one thing, it is preferable for the CFI, for liability
reasons; when you sign somebody off in a BFR in a glider say, that person
is legal to go in any category and class for which this person is rated...
think about it for a second... and it is your backside on the line should
something happen to that dude during the next two years; no so much with
the Wings program; second, although not officially, I was told that the
FAA might look more favorably on a pilot who participates actively in the
Wings program in case you screw up at one point (up to a point that is,
but it might help).

..and then it can be fun; I mean, I end up flying more than three hours a
year with a CFI anyway (e.g., keeping IFR current, I know it doesn't have
to be a CFI, but that's how I do it; or just for the heck of it)

--Sylvain

GeorgeC

The purpose of the Wings program as it is today is not to make the BFR
easier or cheaper, but to encourage higher standards and ongoing proficiency
training. The local FAA Wings guy in my area described it as for people who
want to train to higher standards than the BFR requires and to make it more
of an ongoing thing rather than just one afternoon every 2 years. You also
have the option participating in the more advanced phases that exceed the
standards even more. Completing phase 3 doesn't get you anything that I
know about so yes there isn't much outside incentive. It would be nice if
it got you a discount on your insurance, but I don't know that any insurers
do.

I don't sign up for the program, but I do occassionally attend some of the
seminars and I have found them to be quite good. Sometimes the AOPA teams
up with Wings through their Air Safety Foundation.


"Dallas" wrote in message
...

I always thought taking a wings seminar was a simple way to get your BFR
out of the way. After a little Internet research it seems they require
three hours of dual flight instruction to qualify as a BFR. Is that
correct?

It would be much easier and cheaper to just do the BFR.. I don't see the
incentive for the Wings Program as a substitute for a BFR. (Other than
the
education... )


--
Dallas

Mike wrote:

know about so yes there isn't much outside incentive. It would be nice if
it got you a discount on your insurance, but I don't know that any
insurers do.

I have a renter policy with Avemco and I believe they do give you a discount
for such recurrent training (not sure how much, but there is a little
incentive there)

--Sylvain

Has a CFI ever been held responsable for the subsequent actions of a pilot
they have endorsed for a BFR ?