pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

houstondan writes:

...no, karl, that simply is not true and that's why i framed it the way
i have. it really relates to the totality of the systems and conditions
and not just the simple math. look at the responses that pilots are
giving.

The simple math alone rules out the necessary accuracy, making the
rest of the system moot. If you depend on GPS for altitude
information, you may kill yourself while flying. It's as simple as
that.

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Brett,

First and foremost I would fess up and declare an emergency.


I just have to ask: Why? What can they do for you in a 10-minute
radius/window that you can't do on your own? Communicatation may be
nice for being found later, but "first and foremost" is to ensure there
will be something worth finding.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Houstondan,

I have missed that other thread, so maybe I am missing something, but
the obvious answer seems to try and keep the plane upright, descend out
of the clouds (if they don't touch the ground) and land at the spot you
find there. A GPS might help in locating a flat spot, but your pilot
wouldn't have time looking at it anyway because he'd be busy keeping
the plane upright.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Kontiki,

contact somebody for help.


What kind of help would that be? A refuelling tanker? The
movable-airport squad?

I have a hard time understanding the focus on communication.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 2006-11-12, houstondan wrote:
hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

Firstly, since the thought experiment says you fell asleep at the
controls, it's reasonable to assume that the aircraft is either a very
stable (and slow) type, or is equipped with an autopilot.

First, I'd reduce power to best endurance, to give more time to think.
Then, get the chart and compare it to the position the GPS says I'm at.
That'll give me a clue where I am, and what obstructions (if any) there
are. Then I'd use the GPS to get to an unobstructed point, and try and
get below the clouds. If there's time and sufficient mental capacity
while flying IFR as a VFR only pilot, call Mayday on 121.5

Once beneath the clouds, look for suitable terrain to make a landing.
Given that there's still a little fuel left, there's a chance for at
least two or three goes at landing - so the chosen landing spot can be
inspected first to make sure there are no deadly obstacles like wires,
and to determine the wind direction (which will be a lot easier when you
can see the ground, and are no longer in the soup). Then make the
appropriate landing attempt depending on the terrain that we have to
hand.

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On 2006-11-12, Brett Meares wrote:

Dan: First and foremost I would fess up and declare an emergency.

That should be the last thing - "aviate, navigate, communicate" is the
recommended order! Firstly, fly the plane and figure out where you are
and what obstructions exist below - then if there's still mental
capacity left when flying as a fair weather flyer stuck in IMC, then
worry about turning to 121.5 and calling mayday.

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On 2006-11-12, birdog wrote:
Ten minutes worth of fuel??? Solution: Land an hour ago and refuel.

Not an option? Stand up on the seat and kiss your ass goodbye. After the
cremation, all the other pilots that have to share the sky with you can
breathe a sigh of relief.

That's incredibly defeatist - NEVER GIVE UP! If you just accept defeat
like that when faced with an emergency, well, you probably are going to
die. There's no need to 'kiss your ass goodbye' in these situations: you
*still* have enough fuel to do something, even if that's only to get
below the clouds and look for the least worst crash location. You're
more likely to survive (and unhurt) if you fly it till it stops, rather
than just throwing up your hands and giving up. NEVER ever give up.
Never!

The original question posed indicated that the pilot had fallen asleep
at the yoke (perhaps medical incapacitation, or carbon monoxide in the
cabin) and had awoken in IMC with only 10 minutes fuel remaining.

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"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Houstondan,

I have missed that other thread, so maybe I am missing something, but
the obvious answer seems to try and keep the plane upright, descend out
of the clouds (if they don't touch the ground) and land at the spot you
find there. A GPS might help in locating a flat spot, but your pilot
wouldn't have time looking at it anyway because he'd be busy keeping
the plane upright.

Agree totally, in this situation you have to concentrate totally using the
basic instruments skills we VFR pilots have. even then statistically our
chances are not good. To be stuffing around asking for help on the radio
would just about reduce those slim chances to nil. As another poster
quoted the old cliche , Aviate, navigate, communicate. But in the situation
of the VFR pilot in IMC the aviate should be in bold capitals! Get out of
the clouds first, then ask for help if you still need it.
terry

Mxsmanic wrote:

If you depend on GPS for altitude information,
you may kill yourself while flying. It's as simple as
that.


Under VFR? It's simple that you don't know what you're talking
about.

F--

Mxsmanic wrote:


If you depend on GPS for altitude information, you may kill yourself
while flying. It's as simple as
that.

You get dumber and dumber.