IMC without an autopilot

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
I believe the Piper and century autopilots use the AI. The fact that the
STEC uses
the turn coordinator was a large factor in selecting that A/P (Stec-20)
for my
airplane.

Does anyone know the ratio of failures of electrically driven instruments
compared to vacuum driven?

I don't know what the STEC-20 has for fault protection, but the 2100 does
have cross-checks to the other instruments and internal checks.

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message


Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?

Are you planning to use an autopilot for your checkride?

Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a
crutch for the lazy?

IMO, the safety question is really one of proficiency. If a given pilot is
proficient, then an AP will only add a marginal level of safety. However,
the more a pilot's proficiency degenerates, the greater the margin of safety
provided by an AP. Again, just my opinion.

Of course, this assumes no system failures and a pilot who realizes that an
AP does not in any way negate the need for a constant instrument scan.

For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if
needed I could turn the autopilot on.

Then there's your answer. Why bother with our opinions?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:FVgcc.78957$K91.172384@attbi_s02...
If you turn the autopilot on while in an unusual attitude, it will not
return you to upright flight. All autopilots know is what you tell them,
so
you do not turn one on until the airplane is trimmed to hold altitude in
level flight.

All of them? Are you sure? I'll have to dig through some manuals, but IIRC,
some of the higher ticket ones (KFC-200, STEC 2100) will right the aircraft
and auto-trim as well.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:FZgcc.78300$w54.443455@attbi_s01...
It is surprising/frightening how many pilots do not know where their
autopilot gets its roll input. I have read of cases where a pilot went to
partial-panel because the vacuum pump failed, while their electric turn
coordinator and HSI continued to work just fine.

Wouldn't covering the AI (or other vacuum driven instruments) be considered
"partial panel"?

Well, if you have an electrically driven HSI card and can do a decent job of
maintaining heading by using the rudders, you could and should cover the
A/I to avoid distraction. In the case I mentioned, the pilot lost control
entirely while trying to fly partial-panel, while he had a functioning
heading indicator/bank instrument all the time and didn't realize it. He
just assumed that with the loss of his vacuum instruments he lost both A/I
and heading.

Bob Gardner

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:FZgcc.78300$w54.443455@attbi_s01...
It is surprising/frightening how many pilots do not know where their
autopilot gets its roll input. I have read of cases where a pilot went
to
partial-panel because the vacuum pump failed, while their electric turn
coordinator and HSI continued to work just fine.

Wouldn't covering the AI (or other vacuum driven instruments) be
considered
"partial panel"?

In article N5kcc.79980$K91.171968@attbi_s02,
Bob Gardner wrote:
Well, if you have an electrically driven HSI card and can do a decent job of
maintaining heading by using the rudders, you could and should cover the
A/I to avoid distraction.

I carry those multi-suction-cupped soap holder things in my glove
compartment just in case. My instructor used identical ones during
training. My DE had these vinyl discs that he stuck over the
instruments. A bit of the lubber line of the horizon was peeking out
over it, and it was a pretty irresistable distraction. I can't imagine
how disorienting it would be to have an uncovered, tumbling AI in your
scan...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

If you turn the autopilot on while in an unusual attitude, it will not
return you to upright flight. All autopilots know is what you tell them,
so
you do not turn one on until the airplane is trimmed to hold altitude in
level flight.


Sure it will act like that if you engage an attitude hold mode. It depends
on the mode you engage and for some autopilots it depends on how unusual the
attitude is. It depends on whether its one or two axis. It can depend on
whether you have autotrim. But there are lots of modes that will get you
back S&L. You should know enough about autopilots with your experience to
not make such stupid blanket statements.

I carry those rubber suction disks too. Last month my AI went bad during my
IPC. It took a few minutes to figure out what was going on, and my flying
improved immediately on covering up the AI. It wasn't really tumbling, it just
was very sluggish and didn't follow the airplane really well. A while later we
took the cover off, and it was working again...until I banked. I know how
distracting that was just with a hood. I'm sure being in the soup would amplify
the distraction several times over.

Ben Jackson wrote:

In article N5kcc.79980$K91.171968@attbi_s02,
Bob Gardner wrote:
Well, if you have an electrically driven HSI card and can do a decent job of
maintaining heading by using the rudders, you could and should cover the
A/I to avoid distraction.

I carry those multi-suction-cupped soap holder things in my glove
compartment just in case. My instructor used identical ones during
training. My DE had these vinyl discs that he stuck over the
instruments. A bit of the lubber line of the horizon was peeking out
over it, and it was a pretty irresistable distraction. I can't imagine
how disorienting it would be to have an uncovered, tumbling AI in your
scan...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

You're right, it was a stupid blanket statement, based solely on the boxes I
have flown with. No way to know how all of them work, so I should have
either weasel-worded my post or kept quiet.

Bob Gardner

"Seagram" wrote in message
...
If you turn the autopilot on while in an unusual attitude, it will not
return you to upright flight. All autopilots know is what you tell them,
so
you do not turn one on until the airplane is trimmed to hold altitude in
level flight.


Sure it will act like that if you engage an attitude hold mode. It
depends
on the mode you engage and for some autopilots it depends on how unusual
the
attitude is. It depends on whether its one or two axis. It can depend on
whether you have autotrim. But there are lots of modes that will get you
back S&L. You should know enough about autopilots with your experience to
not make such stupid blanket statements.

When I was an examiner, if the plane had an autopilot the applicant had to
put it through its paces to convince me that s/he knew how to use it.

Bob Gardner

"John T" wrote in message
ws.com...
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message


Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot?

Are you planning to use an autopilot for your checkride?

Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a
crutch for the lazy?

IMO, the safety question is really one of proficiency. If a given pilot
is
proficient, then an AP will only add a marginal level of safety. However,
the more a pilot's proficiency degenerates, the greater the margin of
safety
provided by an AP. Again, just my opinion.

Of course, this assumes no system failures and a pilot who realizes that
an
AP does not in any way negate the need for a constant instrument scan.

For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if
needed I could turn the autopilot on.

Then there's your answer. Why bother with our opinions?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________