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#11
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Maple1" wrote in message
... [You're] Joking right? Not at all, I have thought for year that the Snowturds were an expensive way to turn fuel into noise. They turned my buddy, Bob Drake, into worm food. I remain unconvinced that they serve any military purpose. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#12
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message
... "Maple1" wrote in message ... [You're] Joking right? Not at all, I have thought for year that the Snowturds were an expensive way to turn fuel into noise. They turned my buddy, Bob Drake, into worm food. I remain unconvinced that they serve any military purpose. Excuse me, brain fade effects. Bob was killed formation flying in a CC-130. http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0329-0&lang=en http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0329-1&lang=en -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#13
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Neil Hoskins" wrote in message ... It's a tricky one. Personally I never quite forgave the Red Arrows for switching from the Gnat, as I found it a far more attractive aeroplane than the Hawk. I'm with you on that, Neil, although I do not dislike the Hawk. From my B&W days here's a snap I took back around the mid-1960's at the Elstree Air Show. Showing my vintage I s'pose, but my favourite display team were the 111 Squadron "Black Arrows". The attached shows them on the way up in one of their 22 a/c loops. ~~ Dingo ;~) |
#14
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message ... "Maple1" wrote in message ... [You're] Joking right? Not at all, I have thought for year that the Snowturds were an expensive way to turn fuel into noise. They turned my buddy, Bob Drake, into worm food. I remain unconvinced that they serve any military purpose. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) They MAY encourage recruitment for the military. That is debatable. What is not debatable that they are a symbol for the military and for Canada in general. Canada and Canadians need this. What is so hard to understand about that? Nick |
#15
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HAWK Snowbirds - Red Arrows
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message (Geez, Nick, have you ever been paid to wear a uniform, or are you a wannabe?) No, I'm not a wannabe. I'm a Political Scientist who specializes in strategic studies and international relations. I've trained to become a pilot but due to health reasons am not a pilot. I still love aircraft/aviation/aerospace and photography in genral and I know the relevance of national symbols and having good will ambassadors such as the Snowbirds. Insults and half baked theories do not cut it. Clean it up or don't bother replying. Nick |
#16
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Canuck" wrote in message
... "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message ... "Maple1" wrote in message ... [You're] Joking right? Not at all, I have thought for year that the Snowturds were an expensive way to turn fuel into noise. They turned my buddy, Bob Drake, into worm food. I remain unconvinced that they serve any military purpose. They MAY encourage recruitment for the military. That is debatable. What is not debatable that they are a symbol for the military and for Canada in general. Canada and Canadians need this. What is so hard to understand about that? How does it relate to force effectiveness? Anything that does not contribute to the mission of the Forces of protect the interests of the Canadian state, and I can find no way that the Snowbirds contribute to the mission, is non-essential. Any non-essential activity that costs money should be cut. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#17
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HAWK Snowbirds - Red Arrows
"Canuck" wrote in message
... "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message (Geez, Nick, have you ever been paid to wear a uniform, or are you a wannabe?) No, I'm not a wannabe. I'm a Political Scientist who specializes in strategic studies and international relations. I've trained to become a pilot but due to health reasons am not a pilot. I still love aircraft/aviation/aerospace and photography in genral and I know the relevance of national symbols and having good will ambassadors such as the Snowbirds. Insults and half baked theories do not cut it. Clean it up or don't bother replying. You have just confessed that you are, at least, a "wanted-to-be." From your remark about "the relevance of national symbols and having good will ambassadors," I take it that you cannot quantify the benefit. I am a retired artillery officer with 27 years service, mostly in AD units, and a degree in history. I served as a staff wallah in NDHQ and have an understanding of how it works. If we are using Tutors rather than Hawks, then you can be fairly certain that someone working for the Chief of the Air Staff has done the sums and figured out that retaining the Tutor is cheaper. They certainly know -- to the dollar -- how much more money they would have to work with if it were not politically ill-viewed to dump the Snowbirds. Because of the political sensitivity surrounding the Snowbirds, they get used as a poison pill every time someone threatens to cut CAS's budget. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#18
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message They MAY encourage recruitment for the military. That is debatable. What is not debatable that they are a symbol for the military and for Canada in general. Canada and Canadians need this. What is so hard to understand about that? How does it relate to force effectiveness? Anything that does not contribute to the mission of the Forces of protect the interests of the Canadian state, and I can find no way that the Snowbirds contribute to the mission, is non-essential. Any non-essential activity that costs money should be cut. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) In whose opinion??? The Snowbirds are not non-essential. I repeat: they are a symbol of Canada and act as good will ambassadors for our country. They enhance Canadian unity. How is this non-essential? Nick |
#19
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Canuck" wrote in message
... "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message They MAY encourage recruitment for the military. That is debatable. What is not debatable that they are a symbol for the military and for Canada in general. Canada and Canadians need this. What is so hard to understand about that? How does it relate to force effectiveness? Anything that does not contribute to the mission of the Forces of protect the interests of the Canadian state, and I can find no way that the Snowbirds contribute to the mission, is non-essential. Any non-essential activity that costs money should be cut. In whose opinion??? The Snowbirds are not non-essential. I repeat: they are a symbol of Canada and act as good will ambassadors for our country. They enhance Canadian unity. How is this non-essential? Because they are part of the Canadian Forces, and the symbolism and goodwill has no direct connection, nor can one quantify a contribution, to the generation of forces that can, either through action or their existence, "defend Canada and Canadian interests and values while contributing to international peace and security," the role of the CF laid down in the plans at http://www.cds.forces.gc.ca/pubs/strategic_e.asp. The notion that the Snowbirds "enhance Canadian unity" is highly debatable, if not downright preposterous. The aircraft are pretty and their pilots are talented, but the money thrown at them could fund hundreds of billets for people in the arms and technical trades, and those are what we need in the field. The Snowbirds fall on the circus side of the "bread and circuses" balance sheet. I am reminded of the sign on the Armaments Section of 434 "Bluenose" Squadron, my battery's neighbours in Chatham: "Pilots do it better but without armament it wouldn't be of any military significance." -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
#20
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2008 Hawk Display Aircraft - 6592-W.jpg (1/1)
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message ... "Canuck" wrote in message ... "Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message They MAY encourage recruitment for the military. That is debatable. What is not debatable that they are a symbol for the military and for Canada in general. Canada and Canadians need this. What is so hard to understand about that? How does it relate to force effectiveness? Anything that does not contribute to the mission of the Forces of protect the interests of the Canadian state, and I can find no way that the Snowbirds contribute to the mission, is non-essential. Any non-essential activity that costs money should be cut. In whose opinion??? The Snowbirds are not non-essential. I repeat: they are a symbol of Canada and act as good will ambassadors for our country. They enhance Canadian unity. How is this non-essential? Because they are part of the Canadian Forces, and the symbolism and goodwill has no direct connection, nor can one quantify a contribution, to the generation of forces that can, either through action or their existence, "defend Canada and Canadian interests and values while contributing to international peace and security," the role of the CF laid down in the plans at http://www.cds.forces.gc.ca/pubs/strategic_e.asp. The notion that the Snowbirds "enhance Canadian unity" is highly debatable, if not downright preposterous. The aircraft are pretty and their pilots are talented, but the money thrown at them could fund hundreds of billets for people in the arms and technical trades, and those are what we need in the field. The Snowbirds fall on the circus side of the "bread and circuses" balance sheet. I am reminded of the sign on the Armaments Section of 434 "Bluenose" Squadron, my battery's neighbours in Chatham: "Pilots do it better but without armament it wouldn't be of any military significance." -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) So.... the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Red Arrows, ad infinitum should just pack it in? Nick |
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