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Js3 jet catastrophic failure.



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 31st 18, 04:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,308
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:29:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Dave - those statistics are from 2008 so before jets became popular.


I am well aware, and also before many electrics were flying.
I don't know of any serious statistically useful work since then.
Please let me know if anybody has something more recent.

I think jets will eliminate many of the problems encountered with
traditional systems, but the e-systems may eliminate them completely.


Thinking so, and knowing so are terribly different.
Meantime, practical evidence contradicts that hope.

It will be interesting for the project to be re-run with a decades
worth of improvements to the self-launch and particularly sustainer systems.


And it would be great for someone to sponsor such research.

Unfortunately it is extremely unlikely that we'll reach the level
of reliability one might hope for, given the resources available for
testing and refinement of ANY of these systems.
Jet, gas, or electric - same thing.
These are not Toyotas and never will be given financial constraints.

Landing must be Plan A.
If the propulsion system starts, great! But that is always Plan B.
Similarly, putting yourself at risk given engine failure after it starts
is equally unwise. Always plan the flight profile so you have a safe
out when the thing quits or goes to low power.

Be safe out there,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Some of you know of my work, and courses on software reliability ;-)
Hardware is not so different - lots of testing required!


Ads
  #22  
Old August 31st 18, 05:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Posts: 32
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

El viernes, 31 de agosto de 2018, 12:50:26 (UTC-3), Dave Nadler escribió:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:29:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Dave - those statistics are from 2008 so before jets became popular.


I am well aware, and also before many electrics were flying.
I don't know of any serious statistically useful work since then.
Please let me know if anybody has something more recent.

I think jets will eliminate many of the problems encountered with
traditional systems, but the e-systems may eliminate them completely.


Thinking so, and knowing so are terribly different.
Meantime, practical evidence contradicts that hope.

It will be interesting for the project to be re-run with a decades
worth of improvements to the self-launch and particularly sustainer systems.


And it would be great for someone to sponsor such research.

Unfortunately it is extremely unlikely that we'll reach the level
of reliability one might hope for, given the resources available for
testing and refinement of ANY of these systems.
Jet, gas, or electric - same thing.
These are not Toyotas and never will be given financial constraints.

Landing must be Plan A.
If the propulsion system starts, great! But that is always Plan B.
Similarly, putting yourself at risk given engine failure after it starts
is equally unwise. Always plan the flight profile so you have a safe
out when the thing quits or goes to low power.

Be safe out there,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Some of you know of my work, and courses on software reliability ;-)
Hardware is not so different - lots of testing required!



The only thing that e-systems eliminates completely is the fuel smell in the cockpit.



  #23  
Old August 31st 18, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 127
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On 08/30/2018 01:32 PM, Tango Whisky wrote:
My name is Bert Willing, and your post was nonsense. I know quite a couple of jet owners, and they never had a problem of starting their engins attention altitude.


For you to not know of problems certainly doesn't prove that problems
don't exist. I know of three different JS1's that flew from that 6000'
msl airport that reported problems starting. That's three out of three.

I was at the airport when the bad outlanding reported by Ramy occurred.
I wasn't able to help on that retrieve, I was busy doing another
retrieve when a different jet landed out and collapsed his landing gear
on the same day. Someday jets may be extremely reliable, fuel
efficient, and quiet. That day is not likely to be anytime in the
foreseeable future. Some breakthrough in battery technology is more
likely to come along giving us better energy density and safety than
what we have now.
  #24  
Old August 31st 18, 09:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 127
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On 08/31/2018 10:45 AM, Emir Sherbi wrote:
El viernes, 31 de agosto de 2018, 12:50:26 (UTC-3), Dave Nadler escribió:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:29:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Dave - those statistics are from 2008 so before jets became popular.


I am well aware, and also before many electrics were flying.
I don't know of any serious statistically useful work since then.
Please let me know if anybody has something more recent.

I think jets will eliminate many of the problems encountered with
traditional systems, but the e-systems may eliminate them completely.


Thinking so, and knowing so are terribly different.
Meantime, practical evidence contradicts that hope.

It will be interesting for the project to be re-run with a decades
worth of improvements to the self-launch and particularly sustainer systems.


And it would be great for someone to sponsor such research.

Unfortunately it is extremely unlikely that we'll reach the level
of reliability one might hope for, given the resources available for
testing and refinement of ANY of these systems.
Jet, gas, or electric - same thing.
These are not Toyotas and never will be given financial constraints.

Landing must be Plan A.
If the propulsion system starts, great! But that is always Plan B.
Similarly, putting yourself at risk given engine failure after it starts
is equally unwise. Always plan the flight profile so you have a safe
out when the thing quits or goes to low power.

Be safe out there,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Some of you know of my work, and courses on software reliability ;-)
Hardware is not so different - lots of testing required!



The only thing that e-systems eliminates completely is the fuel smell in the cockpit.




Better to smell fuel than smoke.
  #25  
Old August 31st 18, 09:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 90
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

Better to smell neither fuel or smoke. Engines suck.
  #26  
Old August 31st 18, 09:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 127
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On 08/31/2018 02:49 PM, wrote:
Better to smell neither fuel or smoke. Engines suck.


Except when you're sitting on the ground on a great soaring day and not
a towplane or towpilot in sight. Then they seem wonderful.
  #27  
Old August 31st 18, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Posts: 182
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

At 20:54 31 August 2018, kinsell wrote:
On 08/31/2018 02:49 PM, wrote:
Better to smell neither fuel or smoke. Engines suck.


Except when you're sitting on the ground on a great soaring day and not
a towplane or towpilot in sight. Then they seem wonderful.

Get out the bungy cords!!!!

  #29  
Old September 1st 18, 02:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,308
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 7:11:23 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
...or join the winch queue....
Admittedly that needs a dedicated team (winch driver, cable truck driver,
launch marshal and one or two guys on golf buggies...


And a site where this is practical, plus enough pilots to
support the operation... All not available in many locales.
  #30  
Old September 1st 18, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 42
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

With the average age of glider pilots in the U.S. being what it is these days, the bungee cord launch would be quite an entertaining spectacle!
 




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