Was Bush AWOL in 1972 & 1973? | Cuckoo!!! Cuckoo!!! Cuckoo!!!

NOT Bush-

A Governor in TX stated he helped GW get into the ANG. GW chose the one A/C
least likely to go to SE Asia(F-102). Knowing what I do of the A/C(F-102
capabilities at the time), the ANG(a flying club using USAF equipment), ther
selection and training process of the ANG(selected for a ANG unit, get wings,
return to that unit, not the 'unversally assignable pilot like the USAF).

Anybody that thinks GW 'served' his country by joining the ANG to fly ADC
F-102s is in Disneyland.

If he 'wanted to serve' and 'be a fighter pilot', why not join the USAF or
USN??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Big Red- President
Bush has an honorable discharge proving he fulfilled his military
commitment. Where's yours? BRBR

What 'military commitment' would that be?

If you wish to view GW as some sort of military hero, go right ahead but he
ineptitude during hs firsat 3.5 years is a matter of record. If ya love the
guym, vote for him but 'serve' in the military he did not. If ya think the ANG
is the USAF(as many civilians seem to think) then you are ignorant of the
military in general and the USAF specifically.

BTW-your military service??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 8/30/04 8:36 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Big Red- President
Bush has an honorable discharge proving he fulfilled his military
commitment. Where's yours? BRBR

What 'military commitment' would that be?

If you wish to view GW as some sort of military hero, go right ahead but he
ineptitude during hs firsat 3.5 years is a matter of record. If ya love the
guym, vote for him but 'serve' in the military he did not. If ya think the ANG
is the USAF(as many civilians seem to think) then you are ignorant of the
military in general and the USAF specifically.

BTW-your military service??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Pechs,

I've flown against the 111th more than once. They're as USAF as any other
USAF squadron. They potentially get called up and go to war the same as any
other reserve unit.

GWB served in the Air Guard and was honorably discharged. He's no war hero
and never claimed to be. His opponent served in the Navy, got honorably
discharged and does claim to be a war hero and despite the decorations,
appears not to be (although admittedly did see combat and got the splinters
to prove it).

Essentially, their service doesn't matter much. It's their conduct after
the war with regard to decisions and policy that does matter.

If you like Kerry more, that's your business, but serving in the Air Guard
or reserves is still serving until defined otherwise by the government.

One man's good deal is not another man's bad deal.

--Woody

Doug- If you like Kerry more, that's your business, but serving in the Air
Guard
or reserves is still serving until defined otherwise by the government.
BRBR

Agree but why not look at the specifics of the time and the people involved
instead of brushing this with such a wide swath?

Why did GWB join the F-102 guard instead of another type unit, the USAF or the
USN?

Why the F-102? Did have some love affair with the mission of flying intercepts
against big targets, letting loose a Genie and goin home? Did he know that of
all the A/C in the ANG and USAF inventory at the time, the F-102 was the least
likely to go to VN?


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

(Pechs1) wrote:

Agree but why not look at the specifics of the time and the people involved
instead of brushing this with such a wide swath?

I'm a little unclear on what you are asking here ? Interested,
though. Have you seen Dan Ford's site on Bush's F-102 career ? He has
focused on facts, and the presentation is pretty impressive .


Why did GWB join the F-102 guard instead of another type unit, the USAF or the
USN?

Why the F-102? Did have some love affair with the mission of flying intercepts
against big targets, letting loose a Genie and goin home? Did he know that of
all the A/C in the ANG and USAF inventory at the time, the F-102 was the least
likely to go to VN?

As I understand it from Ed Rasimus's post a month back, the
ANG didn't have a "dream sheet" per se that gave him a choice. So
since it was Texas ANG and they had Deuces, that's what George The 2nd
got trained for. Apparently later on he wasn't re-trained to another
type due to the glut of ACs that were senior and trying to stay in, so
a lot of less senior people got early "drops", much like Army Aviation
was doing. The length of the drop was notable, though - his was rather
larger than *I* have heard was typical. I don't know what stats there
are on the average length of drop people got when they were cut loose.

On 8/31/04 8:34 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Doug- If you like Kerry more, that's your business, but serving in the Air
Guard
or reserves is still serving until defined otherwise by the government.
BRBR

Agree but why not look at the specifics of the time and the people involved
instead of brushing this with such a wide swath?

Why did GWB join the F-102 guard instead of another type unit, the USAF or the
USN?

Why the F-102? Did have some love affair with the mission of flying intercepts
against big targets, letting loose a Genie and goin home? Did he know that of
all the A/C in the ANG and USAF inventory at the time, the F-102 was the least
likely to go to VN?

Dunno. Don't care.

No question that serving in the ANG was a better deal than going to Viet Nam
in an active duty unit--good deal for President Bush. His good deal was
nobody else's bad deal. Frankly, if I had a child that wanted to go USN
active duty aviation, I'd advise them against it, and suggest trying for an
ANG unit too. Viet Nam or not. It's still a better deal.

Cut President Bush a wide swath for his ANG duty and/or cut Senator Kerry a
wide swath for his 3 purple hearts and post-combat conduct in front of
Congress... and/or former President Clinton for his ability to avoid the war
entirely. These events contribute specifically to defining each man's
character. I leave that definition based on those events to you.

It seems to me that folks pick the side they like (or dislike) most first,
then justify their candidate's military service based on that like or
dislike.

What matters to me is the politician's conduct, decisions, and policy-making
skill.

--Woody

Doug- No question that serving in the ANG was a better deal than going to
Viet Nam
in an active duty unit-- BRBR

Sorry, don't get this. Altho nobody in the military wants to go to combat, I
would have liked to experience it. The people I have read about, including Ed
R., view SEA combat operations as the best times of their military careers.

Doug Frankly, if I had a child that wanted to go USN
active duty aviation, I'd advise them against it, and suggest trying for an
ANG unit too. Viet Nam or not. It's still a better deal. BRBR


Surprised at you. Why?
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 31 Aug 2004 13:34:38 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote:

Doug- If you like Kerry more, that's your business, but serving in the Air
Guard
or reserves is still serving until defined otherwise by the government.
BRBR

Agree but why not look at the specifics of the time and the people involved
instead of brushing this with such a wide swath?

Why did GWB join the F-102 guard instead of another type unit, the USAF or the
USN?
Your question is just plain silly - or stupid, take your pick.
Why did serve in the Navy, Commander? You could have been a Marine,
or a special forces, or a SEAL or a plane captain, or a ???????



Why the F-102? Did have some love affair with the mission of flying intercepts
against big targets, letting loose a Genie and goin home? Did he know that of
all the A/C in the ANG and USAF inventory at the time, the F-102 was the least
likely to go to VN?
Hindsight is a marvelous thing but in the hands of someone like you -
it appears to be dangerous...
Regards,



P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

charlie- Why did serve in the Navy, Commander? You could have been a Marine,
or a special forces, or a SEAL or a plane captain, or a ??????? BRBR

Wanted to fly in the active duty Navy off CVs, fleet aviator, which I view as
the best of the best. I went to HS and college during the midst of the VN war,
and continued the path regardless of this. I did my best and would have been
sent to where ever the USN told me to go. West or east. Even a fast track into
a CV/squadron on Yankee station.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

"Pechs1" wrote in message
...

Why did GWB join the F-102 guard instead of another type unit, the
USAF or the USN?


For any number of reasons. He didn't want to serve in the military full
time, he wanted to minimize his chances of going to Vietnam, etc.



Why the F-102? Did have some love affair with the mission of flying
intercepts against big targets, letting loose a Genie and goin home?


Probably because the closest ANG unit was operating the F-102.



Did he know that of all the A/C in the ANG and USAF inventory at
the time, the F-102 was the least likely to go to VN?


At the time Bush joined the ANG the F-102 was in service in Vietnam and had
been so for years.