Groen Bros.

Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes (not enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the new gyro kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell much. Thanks
for any info.

I got a ride in the prototype at Arlington last year and was impressed with
the stability. Was not impressed with the control forces HIGH. Prototype
used an RAF cabin and was much closer than what I was used to with my
Safari. I never did find the rudder pedals. I tried an stock RAF after my
ride in the Groen and found the rudder pedal forces in that bird were pretty
much the same HIGH. All that said, I have a great load of respect for Jim
Mayfield and his gyro knowledge and engineering expertise. In the past,
I've had some time with Jim and he knows what he is doing. I think that
their gyro will be the leading two seater quickly;

Stu Fields ex gyro pilot turned helo pilot.

"Al Colunio" wrote in message
m...
Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes (not
enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the new gyro
kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell much.
Thanks
for any info.

I have the first customer-converted gyro converted to Sparrowhawk
specs done by Jim and his crew. I started with the RAF without a
horizontal stabilizer and after a few months, I was considering
selling it. It was scary to fly. The slightest updraft and the nose
would go shooting upwards, opposite of what a stable craft of any kind
should do. I then had a stab made and that was a lot better. I then
had the conversion done and what a difference. It flies like a
Cessna. I can actually relax my hand on the stick and not be fighting
it most of the time.

The stick is a little heavy, but then I'm not trying to do stupid
human tricks either. You get used to it. Just like a Cessna doesn't
respond like a Pitts to inputs, neither does the Sparrowhawk to an
open-frame, more squirrely machine. The Sparrowhawk kit is similar to
mine but with a wider and higher cabin and a pedestal instead of a
flat-panel. The big difference is the Sparrowhawk was actually
engineered, stress-tested and comes with aircraft grade components and
hardware and an actual suspension system, something unheard of at RAF,
who still considers a horizontal stab a "contraption" and has an
almost foot-high thrustline trying to tumble you over. The
Sparrowhawk is center-line thrust.

Ken J. - Sandy Eggo



"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message ...
I got a ride in the prototype at Arlington last year and was impressed with
the stability. Was not impressed with the control forces HIGH. Prototype
used an RAF cabin and was much closer than what I was used to with my
Safari. I never did find the rudder pedals. I tried an stock RAF after my
ride in the Groen and found the rudder pedal forces in that bird were pretty
much the same HIGH. All that said, I have a great load of respect for Jim
Mayfield and his gyro knowledge and engineering expertise. In the past,
I've had some time with Jim and he knows what he is doing. I think that
their gyro will be the leading two seater quickly;

Stu Fields ex gyro pilot turned helo pilot.

"Al Colunio" wrote in message
m...
Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes (not
enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the new gyro
kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell much.
Thanks
for any info.

Ken: I've got time in nearly all the Cessna, Piper, Ercoupe, Aeronca,some
Kitfox and some RV6, and some Mooney as well as the Benson, Safari, Bell 47,
Brantly, UH-1 and T-38 which includes supersonic flite. I've never flown
anything with the stick forces I found in the Sparrowhawk prototype. What
is the reason for such High stick forces? Has Groen kept this stick force
gradient in the finished copy?
Stu Fields Safari pilot
"Ken Sandyeggo" wrote in message
om...
I have the first customer-converted gyro converted to Sparrowhawk
specs done by Jim and his crew. I started with the RAF without a
horizontal stabilizer and after a few months, I was considering
selling it. It was scary to fly. The slightest updraft and the nose
would go shooting upwards, opposite of what a stable craft of any kind
should do. I then had a stab made and that was a lot better. I then
had the conversion done and what a difference. It flies like a
Cessna. I can actually relax my hand on the stick and not be fighting
it most of the time.

The stick is a little heavy, but then I'm not trying to do stupid
human tricks either. You get used to it. Just like a Cessna doesn't
respond like a Pitts to inputs, neither does the Sparrowhawk to an
open-frame, more squirrely machine. The Sparrowhawk kit is similar to
mine but with a wider and higher cabin and a pedestal instead of a
flat-panel. The big difference is the Sparrowhawk was actually
engineered, stress-tested and comes with aircraft grade components and
hardware and an actual suspension system, something unheard of at RAF,
who still considers a horizontal stab a "contraption" and has an
almost foot-high thrustline trying to tumble you over. The
Sparrowhawk is center-line thrust.

Ken J. - Sandy Eggo



"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message
...
I got a ride in the prototype at Arlington last year and was impressed
with
the stability. Was not impressed with the control forces HIGH.
Prototype
used an RAF cabin and was much closer than what I was used to with my
Safari. I never did find the rudder pedals. I tried an stock RAF after
my
ride in the Groen and found the rudder pedal forces in that bird were
pretty
much the same HIGH. All that said, I have a great load of respect for
Jim
Mayfield and his gyro knowledge and engineering expertise. In the past,
I've had some time with Jim and he knows what he is doing. I think that
their gyro will be the leading two seater quickly;

Stu Fields ex gyro pilot turned helo pilot.

"Al Colunio" wrote in message
m...
Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes (not
enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the new
gyro
kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell much.
Thanks
for any info.

Stu,

I don't know about the stick forces on the Sparrowhawk kits. I've
never flown another type gyro except the RAF and now my Groen modified
ship. I'm comfortable with the "solid" feeling as I fly mine pretty
much like a Cessna.....fairly conservatively. I like to pull out a
sandwich and a beer from the cooler, light up a cigar and read the
Enquirer while I'm heading out, without having to worry about it
falling off into a dive.
;)




"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message ...
Ken: I've got time in nearly all the Cessna, Piper, Ercoupe, Aeronca,some
Kitfox and some RV6, and some Mooney as well as the Benson, Safari, Bell 47,
Brantly, UH-1 and T-38 which includes supersonic flite. I've never flown
anything with the stick forces I found in the Sparrowhawk prototype. What
is the reason for such High stick forces? Has Groen kept this stick force
gradient in the finished copy?
Stu Fields Safari pilot
"Ken Sandyeggo" wrote in message
om...
I have the first customer-converted gyro converted to Sparrowhawk
specs done by Jim and his crew. I started with the RAF without a
horizontal stabilizer and after a few months, I was considering
selling it. It was scary to fly. The slightest updraft and the nose
would go shooting upwards, opposite of what a stable craft of any kind
should do. I then had a stab made and that was a lot better. I then
had the conversion done and what a difference. It flies like a
Cessna. I can actually relax my hand on the stick and not be fighting
it most of the time.

The stick is a little heavy, but then I'm not trying to do stupid
human tricks either. You get used to it. Just like a Cessna doesn't
respond like a Pitts to inputs, neither does the Sparrowhawk to an
open-frame, more squirrely machine. The Sparrowhawk kit is similar to
mine but with a wider and higher cabin and a pedestal instead of a
flat-panel. The big difference is the Sparrowhawk was actually
engineered, stress-tested and comes with aircraft grade components and
hardware and an actual suspension system, something unheard of at RAF,
who still considers a horizontal stab a "contraption" and has an
almost foot-high thrustline trying to tumble you over. The
Sparrowhawk is center-line thrust.

Ken J. - Sandy Eggo



"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message
...
I got a ride in the prototype at Arlington last year and was impressed
with
the stability. Was not impressed with the control forces HIGH.
Prototype
used an RAF cabin and was much closer than what I was used to with my
Safari. I never did find the rudder pedals. I tried an stock RAF after
my
ride in the Groen and found the rudder pedal forces in that bird were
pretty
much the same HIGH. All that said, I have a great load of respect for
Jim
Mayfield and his gyro knowledge and engineering expertise. In the past,
I've had some time with Jim and he knows what he is doing. I think that
their gyro will be the leading two seater quickly;

Stu Fields ex gyro pilot turned helo pilot.

"Al Colunio" wrote in message
m...
Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes (not
enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the new
gyro
kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell much.
Thanks
for any info.

Ken Sandyeggo wrote:

I like to pull out a sandwich and a beer from the cooler,
light up a cigar and read the Enquirer while I'm heading out,
without having to worry about it falling off into a dive.

Oh come on Ken.... Stop lying like the proverbial rug.

Isn't more like lighting up a smoke and sipping a starbucks while your
little two legged co-pilot with the bottomless stomach does the stick
time.

He must have a hundred hours in his own logbook by now.

Jesus (pronounced Hay Seuss in Calif) You have come up with the best ad for
any Gyro I've ever seen!! In My Safari, I've only recently learned how to
change frequencies without first landing. I can't even think about the beer
due to the slightly intoxicating affect of thinking about a cold one that
would affect my flying to a dangerous extent. Where do I trade my Safari
for a Groen Mod? Or maybe I should ask Mayfield to do a mod on the
Safari....I will have to say that your "Solid" equates to my "stuck fence
post". Should we ever meet, I will definitely avoid arm wrestling with you.
Stu Fields
"Ken Sandyeggo" wrote in message
om...
Stu,

I don't know about the stick forces on the Sparrowhawk kits. I've
never flown another type gyro except the RAF and now my Groen modified
ship. I'm comfortable with the "solid" feeling as I fly mine pretty
much like a Cessna.....fairly conservatively. I like to pull out a
sandwich and a beer from the cooler, light up a cigar and read the
Enquirer while I'm heading out, without having to worry about it
falling off into a dive.
;)




"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message
...
Ken: I've got time in nearly all the Cessna, Piper, Ercoupe,
Aeronca,some
Kitfox and some RV6, and some Mooney as well as the Benson, Safari, Bell
47,
Brantly, UH-1 and T-38 which includes supersonic flite. I've never
flown
anything with the stick forces I found in the Sparrowhawk prototype.
What
is the reason for such High stick forces? Has Groen kept this stick
force
gradient in the finished copy?
Stu Fields Safari pilot
"Ken Sandyeggo" wrote in message
om...
I have the first customer-converted gyro converted to Sparrowhawk
specs done by Jim and his crew. I started with the RAF without a
horizontal stabilizer and after a few months, I was considering
selling it. It was scary to fly. The slightest updraft and the nose
would go shooting upwards, opposite of what a stable craft of any kind
should do. I then had a stab made and that was a lot better. I then
had the conversion done and what a difference. It flies like a
Cessna. I can actually relax my hand on the stick and not be fighting
it most of the time.

The stick is a little heavy, but then I'm not trying to do stupid
human tricks either. You get used to it. Just like a Cessna doesn't
respond like a Pitts to inputs, neither does the Sparrowhawk to an
open-frame, more squirrely machine. The Sparrowhawk kit is similar to
mine but with a wider and higher cabin and a pedestal instead of a
flat-panel. The big difference is the Sparrowhawk was actually
engineered, stress-tested and comes with aircraft grade components and
hardware and an actual suspension system, something unheard of at RAF,
who still considers a horizontal stab a "contraption" and has an
almost foot-high thrustline trying to tumble you over. The
Sparrowhawk is center-line thrust.

Ken J. - Sandy Eggo



"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote in message
...
I got a ride in the prototype at Arlington last year and was
impressed
with
the stability. Was not impressed with the control forces HIGH.
Prototype
used an RAF cabin and was much closer than what I was used to with
my
Safari. I never did find the rudder pedals. I tried an stock RAF
after
my
ride in the Groen and found the rudder pedal forces in that bird
were
pretty
much the same HIGH. All that said, I have a great load of respect
for
Jim
Mayfield and his gyro knowledge and engineering expertise. In the p
ast,
I've had some time with Jim and he knows what he is doing. I think
that
their gyro will be the leading two seater quickly;

Stu Fields ex gyro pilot turned helo pilot.

"Al Colunio" wrote in message
m...
Hi. I have been lurking lately. I have an interest in Gyroplanes
(not
enough
money for helicopters). Does anyone have any comments about the
new
gyro
kit
that the groen bros are introducing, or is it to early to tell
much.
Thanks
for any info.