Glider - Towplane Signals

Vaughn writes
Compared to most other things in aviation, portable radios are cheap.

Perhaps. But though I don't know why they aren't in common usage in our
club fleet (in either the single or two-seaters) I don't think it's an
issue of cost. But neither do I think they're missed on a day to day
basis.

Perhaps things might be different if we were primarily an aerotow site
or we had to share the airfield or otherwise manage a high traffic to
space ratio? But as it is, aerotow is the exception rather than the rule
and we have the luxury of a large airfield all to ourselves

Anyway, in token gesture to topic, I only raised the matter as an
example of when aerotow signals might get more use, but even then I'm
only guessing as I can count the number of aerotows I've taken on the
fingers of one thumb. And that was from a different site and we did use
a portable radio to co-ordinate!

--
Bill Gribble
http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk
- Learn from the mistakes of others.
- You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.

Let me try again - for some reason the Google version got my post out
of order.

Here's the main thrust of my post - has any glider pilot ever
successfully used the wing rock signal to speed up a towplane that was
flying dangerously slowly?

Is this a signal that has migrated from winch launching and is it
useful?

Mike

COLIN LAMB wrote:
What I see is a clear picture that working radios are essential for safety.
They are inexpensive and the communications between pilots when one goes
out of view is reassuring.

Colin N12HS


Our club has a simple rule - no radio, no fly, no problems...

I wonder if the wing rock signal might be best not
used for the same reason it is never used for winch
launching. If you are slow do you really want to be
applying aileron to rock the wings?



At 14:30 23 March 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
Let me try again - for some reason the Google version
got my post out
of order.

Here's the main thrust of my post - has any glider
pilot ever
successfully used the wing rock signal to speed up
a towplane that was
flying dangerously slowly?

Is this a signal that has migrated from winch launching
and is it
useful?

Mike

I assume you mean that the tuggie looses sight of the
glider. If the glider looses sight of the tug there
is only one action required, pull sharply on yellow
knob, no communication required just release.


At 16:00 23 March 2005, Bruce wrote:
COLIN LAMB wrote:
What I see is a clear picture that working radios
are essential for safety.
They are inexpensive and the communications between
pilots when one goes
out of view is reassuring.

Colin N12HS


Our club has a simple rule - no radio, no fly, no problems...

Also, I have had mixed results with the "turn" signal, it is usually
not noticed.

Pull harder !

The turn signal works when the tow pilot runs out of rudder, then he
turns !

Todd Smith
3S

At 14:30 23 March 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
Let me try again - for some reason the Google version
got my post out
of order.

Here's the main thrust of my post - has any glider
pilot ever
successfully used the wing rock signal to speed up
a towplane that was
flying dangerously slowly?

deletion



Seems to me the question could be phrased better.
(If it is already dangerously slow, rocking the wings
could be disastrous.)

A better question might be, 'Are the signals useful
for speeding up or slowing down when the speed is
not really dangerous but is not the best or most comfortable?'.

Or, are these emergency signals or convenience signals?
The steering signal is not an emergency one. Certainly
the emergency release and the close spoilers signals
are emergencies; do we want only emergency signals?

I've used the tail waggle to slow a tuggie down when
my glider was shaking due to excessive tow speed.
He was leveling off under a cloud layer and he had
sped up considerably. I was not wanting to release,
as I was not within safe glide. So yes, in a sense,
this was an emergency procedure signal from glider
to towplane that worked.

For those who are talking about takeoff, sure, I don't
see there is a lot of time to signal 'too slow' or
desire to do so for aerodynamic reasons.

As far as other glider to towplane emerg signals, maybe
glider can't release is important (although one can
usually break the rope, unless wrapped around an ailoron,
etc.).

As far as mandatory radios, I'm why this would make
a critical difference, except to have someone keying
a radio when they should really be focused on the release
knob. Maybe keying the mike and saying 'speed up'
works 100 times. Then the 101st time the tuggie is
oblivious, or can do nothing about it (ran out of gas)
and the glider pilot has wasted 2-5 seconds instead
of releasing, stalls, and dmages the glider or hurts
himself.

I'm willing to bet that if you ask pilots who damaged
a ballasted glider on takeoff, many keyed the mike
right before the stall...
and were in disbelief that the tuggie didn't do what
he was told.

I've aborted launches twice due to tuggie issues.
No radio either time. And no raised fingers from me.
I suppose both were emergency PTTs. But if there
is anything 'wierd' going on, release immediately and
I'm on my own...

I'd definitely prefer a chat with the tuggie before
launch and then no radio, to no chat and then a conversation
on the radio DURING a launch emergency.

At 14:30 23 March 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
Let me try again - for some reason the Google version
got my post out
of order.

Here's the main thrust of my post - has any glider
pilot ever
successfully used the wing rock signal to speed up
a towplane that was
flying dangerously slowly?

Is this a signal that has migrated from winch launching
and is it
useful?

Mike


Mark J. Boyd

"Bill Gribble" wrote in
message .. .
At risk of making myself look daft because I've mis-remembered the
signals, I'm pretty certain that here in the UK rocking the glider's wings
is an indication that you can't release from tow (though it's actually
combined with flying out to the left before giving the signal) and so by
implication, I'd guess, a request that the tug release you at an
appropriate point.


the glider wing rock for cannot release is given AFTER the glider has moved
off to one side of the tow plane (normally left for those side by side
seating tow planes)... not when directly behind the tow..

BT

That is why N numbers should be on the flaps of the towplane, and when I tow
I always try to remain about 10 faster than needed, but not all can do that.
We have a very powerfull tug, that allows us to stay well up the speed range
and still climb!!!!


"Andy Blackburn" wrote in message
...
At 17:30 22 March 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
In particular, I really wonder if signals to
increase/decrease speed, while useful for winch or
ground launch, are
actually useless in real aerotow situations?

Let's see:
- L-19 ran out out of gas just as we crested the high
point of the runway at
Sugarbush (LS-3 - full water) - I was 2' in he air
he was still on the ground.
No signals possible - except my hand signal after it
was all done.

- Canopy came open just after liftoff on a passenger
hop in a Janus. Didn't
need any signal - latch and go.

- Rope break at 300' over the high-tension lines at
Fremont, CA. I got my
signal all right.

- Three towplane release failures in a row at the beginning
of the roll. I
asked for a new towplane.

- Unable to release due to a non-standard ring. We
handled it by radio so
we could try to drop the line over the field. It's
still somewhere in the
Sonoran desert.

I've tried the speed-up slow-down signals occasionally,
but if I really
needed the speedup, I'm not sure I'd want to be churning
the controls.

I do make a point of knowing the towplane N-number
if at all possible.

9B