FAA shares blame also

So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control during this
debacle??? Real warm fuzzy knowing a 150 can just wander in
the most restricted airspace on Earth with no bells and
whistles before it was 3 miles away from the White House. It
should have been noticed 60 miles out not 3.

Got to be an Air Traffic screw up also



Finally, when the Cessna came within three miles of the
White House -- just a few minutes flying time -- it altered
course.

After landing in Frederick, the pilot and student pilot were
handcuffed and questioned before being released. Authorities
said the two had become lost.

Sheaffer and Martin have not been available for comment.

Sheaffer didn't take the most basic steps required of pilots
before operating an aircraft, the Post reported, citing FAA
records. He failed to check the weather report before
leaving Smoketown, and he didn't check the FAA's "Notices to
Airmen," which informs pilots of airspace restrictions.

Greg Martin, the FAA spokesman, would not confirm the Post's
account.

So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control

ATC is poorly named. Pilots =control= airplanes. Air traffic "control"
talks to pilots who are listening, and listens to pilots who are talking
(to them). However they do not have their hand on the yoke.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control during this
debacle??? Real warm fuzzy knowing a 150 can just wander in
the most restricted airspace on Earth with no bells and
whistles before it was 3 miles away from the White House. It
should have been noticed 60 miles out not 3.

Got to be an Air Traffic screw up also


Doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing, separating and sequencing
aircraft. Our ATC system does not keep track of every VFR aircraft not on
flight following, nor do we want it to. They were watching, attempting to
contact, and intercepting that plane long before 3 miles out. 3 miles is
where they finally turned west.

If you think we need more rules, you're welcome to go back to Europe. Don't
be such a doofus, think before you post.

It was the pilot's duty to file a flight plan and contact ATC; ATC had no
duty, and indeed did not have the ability, to contact the pilot without
knowing which frequency, if any, the pilot was listening to. It's pretty
apparent that he was not using his radio at all.

I have nothing but contempt for him, and cheer any move to revoke his
certificate. Everyone in the general aviation community takes a hit when
someone refuses to take advantage of the many sources of information
available for flight planning.

Bob Gardner


Bob Gardner

"SolarSapien" wrote in message
.. .
So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control during this debacle??? Real warm
fuzzy knowing a 150 can just wander in the most restricted airspace on
Earth with no bells and whistles before it was 3 miles away from the White
House. It should have been noticed 60 miles out not 3.

Got to be an Air Traffic screw up also



Finally, when the Cessna came within three miles of the White House --
just a few minutes flying time -- it altered course.

After landing in Frederick, the pilot and student pilot were handcuffed
and questioned before being released. Authorities said the two had become
lost.

Sheaffer and Martin have not been available for comment.

Sheaffer didn't take the most basic steps required of pilots before
operating an aircraft, the Post reported, citing FAA records. He failed to
check the weather report before leaving Smoketown, and he didn't check the
FAA's "Notices to Airmen," which informs pilots of airspace restrictions.

Greg Martin, the FAA spokesman, would not confirm the Post's account.

There are probably several dozen planes a day that approach the ADIZ
and then turn away. The FAA can't jump everytime a plane turns that
direction. The time it takes from crossing into until over the white
house is very short.
Think of controllers as the guys at the county fare that help direct
cars in the parking lot. They suggest turns to drivers to make things
move more smoothly and prevent cars from fighting over the same space.
However, they DO NOT control the cars themselves and are not the one's
responsible when a driver hits someone.

-Robert, CFI

Bob Gardner wrote:

Everyone in the general aviation community takes a hit when
someone refuses to take advantage of the many sources of information
available for flight planning.

Several postings on this topic have mentioned, in various forms, the idea of
gathering information before a flight. What puzzles me is what relevance
this has to this particular case. It's not as if the ADIZ had changed in
size recently, is it?

If not: how could a pilot on the east coast *not* be aware of the ADIZ?

- Andrew

NOT ONE DAMN AIRCRAFT SHOULD BE WITHIN 60 miles of
Washington without a transponder and being tracked from the
Ground or 0 feet to 50,000 feet

PERIOD

You open canopy fly like the wind no radio bi-plane era
boy's need to join the 21st century

If ya wanna fly without any AT instructions or squawking
move to New Mexico or Iowa. VFR through DC airspace?? STUPID

No room for joy flying in sensitive airspace like DC

The FAA SHOULD have been tracking that aircraft 60 miles out
PERIOD

What if that 150 was 2 Arabs' with a plane full of uranium
isotope????

60 miles out every damn object should be squawking and
tagged on a radar scope. The AT people make over 6 figures a
year.

DO YOUR F&*^ Job FAA TRACK AND SEQUENCE AIRCRAFT

The chaos in DC last week was FAA breakdown and a terrible
security procedure for aircraft intercept. The days of doing
what you want VFR in a puddle hopper in sensitive airspace
is OVER

DEAL WITH IT


Bob Gardner wrote:
It was the pilot's duty to file a flight plan and contact ATC; ATC had no
duty, and indeed did not have the ability, to contact the pilot without
knowing which frequency, if any, the pilot was listening to. It's pretty
apparent that he was not using his radio at all.

I have nothing but contempt for him, and cheer any move to revoke his
certificate. Everyone in the general aviation community takes a hit when
someone refuses to take advantage of the many sources of information
available for flight planning.

Bob Gardner


Bob Gardner

"SolarSapien" wrote in message
.. .

So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control during this debacle??? Real warm
fuzzy knowing a 150 can just wander in the most restricted airspace on
Earth with no bells and whistles before it was 3 miles away from the White
House. It should have been noticed 60 miles out not 3.

Got to be an Air Traffic screw up also



Finally, when the Cessna came within three miles of the White House --
just a few minutes flying time -- it altered course.

After landing in Frederick, the pilot and student pilot were handcuffed
and questioned before being released. Authorities said the two had become
lost.

Sheaffer and Martin have not been available for comment.

Sheaffer didn't take the most basic steps required of pilots before
operating an aircraft, the Post reported, citing FAA records. He failed to
check the weather report before leaving Smoketown, and he didn't check the
FAA's "Notices to Airmen," which informs pilots of airspace restrictions.

Greg Martin, the FAA spokesman, would not confirm the Post's account.

SolarSapien wrote:
NOT ONE DAMN AIRCRAFT SHOULD BE WITHIN 60 miles of Washington without a
transponder and being tracked from the
Ground or 0 feet to 50,000 feet

PERIOD

You open canopy fly like the wind no radio bi-plane era boy's need to
join the 21st century

If ya wanna fly without any AT instructions or squawking move to New
Mexico or Iowa. VFR through DC airspace?? STUPID

No room for joy flying in sensitive airspace like DC

The FAA SHOULD have been tracking that aircraft 60 miles out
PERIOD

What if that 150 was 2 Arabs' with a plane full of uranium isotope????

60 miles out every damn object should be squawking and tagged on a radar
scope. The AT people make over 6 figures a year.

DO YOUR F&*^ Job FAA TRACK AND SEQUENCE AIRCRAFT

The chaos in DC last week was FAA breakdown and a terrible security
procedure for aircraft intercept. The days of doing what you want VFR in
a puddle hopper in sensitive airspace is OVER

DEAL WITH IT


Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........

This guy was like 69 years old and it's sure questionable how
up to date he was. The account I read said when intercepted
by the Blackhawks he totally froze and the student pilot
had to take over and land the plane. His flying career needs
to end.

There's no excuse for not getting a briefing and getting
the NOTAMS. I don't leave the ground without getting
a briefing and I fly in a low traffic part of the country.



"SolarSapien" wrote in message
.. .
So, ah, where was FAA Air Traffic control during this debacle??? Real warm
fuzzy knowing a 150 can just wander in the most restricted airspace on
Earth with no bells and whistles before it was 3 miles away from the White
House. It should have been noticed 60 miles out not 3.

Got to be an Air Traffic screw up also



Finally, when the Cessna came within three miles of the White House --
just a few minutes flying time -- it altered course.

After landing in Frederick, the pilot and student pilot were handcuffed
and questioned before being released. Authorities said the two had become
lost.

Sheaffer and Martin have not been available for comment.

Sheaffer didn't take the most basic steps required of pilots before
operating an aircraft, the Post reported, citing FAA records. He failed to
check the weather report before leaving Smoketown, and he didn't check the
FAA's "Notices to Airmen," which informs pilots of airspace restrictions.

Greg Martin, the FAA spokesman, would not confirm the Post's account.

"OtisWinslow" wrote in message
m...
This guy was like 69 years old and it's sure questionable how
up to date he was. The account I read said when intercepted
by the Blackhawks he totally froze and the student pilot
had to take over and land the plane. His flying career needs
to end.

There's no excuse for not getting a briefing and getting
the NOTAMS. I don't leave the ground without getting
a briefing and I fly in a low traffic part of the country.


I'd bet we all know people that don't get briefing for the vast majority of
their flights as well as people flying (or driving, if you're from Arizona
or Floriduh) well past the time their ability ran out.