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#11
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Knee Jerks
Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Why is it everytime someone posts an accident, there are those who quickly make a decision or pronouncement that it was stupid, or the pilot was a moron, or, etc, etc, and never have a clue as to the real happenings? Why does it take well trained professional crash investigators to do a full investigation that may last several weeks, months, years, to determine what happened when they could just take a quick look here and see what the "experts" have to say? There have been several crashes in recent days which is disturbing as hell to me and they have been well publicized. In nearly all of these crashes, there have been eye witnesses who breathlessly describe what they saw, or THINK they saw and the media laps it up as if it were gospel. Often the witness can't tell the difference in a Cessna and a Piper or a JetRanger. Then, to make matters worse, there are those amatuers, and a few more pros, who make immediate pronouncements as to what happened and who is to blame. I have been guilty of making statements in the past that turned out to be only partly right because I didn't have all the facts. In 50 years of flying I've learned that if you aren't in the airplane or ar not doing the flying, or are not looking right at the action with a professional eye, why make a fool of yourself with knee jerk statements? Dudley, if you are still here, what do you think? You've been around long enough and have been to enough crashes to have some ideas on the subject. Rocky Those of us like you and me and others like us who have been in the professional end of the community for any length of time usually tend to shy heavily away from the accident speculation business, as we know from actual experience how often the cause of an accident turns out to be something other than the obvious. Dudley Henriques And, fortunately, those of you who have been in the professional end of the community also abstain from posting in this ng every accident that you hear about. And for that many of us are grateful! Unfortunately, the amateurs likely will keep posting accidents and the amateur commentators will keep speculating... Matt |
#12
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Knee Jerks
Arketip wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote: buttman wrote: is crashing not a part of piloting? Not if you are a good pilot. Matt So, you are saying that all the pilots that had a crash are bad pilots? Since the topic here is piloting, I'm ruling out aircraft problems as that isn't a piloting issue. So, yes, in this context. Matt |
#13
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Knee Jerks
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#14
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Knee Jerks
Matt Whiting wrote:
Since the topic here is piloting, I'm ruling out aircraft problems as that isn't a piloting issue. It depends on the aircraft problem. Some problems are plenty recoverable, even by a student. Others are beyond superhuman flying skills. |
#15
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Knee Jerks
There are accidents - a crank breaks on an otherwise perfectly
functioning engine - a microburst downdraft on short final in otherwise clear air - a bird impact that blinds the pilot - icing encounters that were not forecast - the vacuum pump goes bad - and so on... However, the vast majority of "accidents" - 98% -are not accidental, they are caused... There is a chain of events that leads up to the crash that would have been prevented, could have been prevented, and should have been prevented, had the pilot done his job before leaving the ground... Examples: Other than a fuel line breaking in flight there is no excuse for running out of fuel - none - zero - nada... A pilot who runs out of fuel should lose his certificate imediately and permanently.. He is not fit to pilot an aircraft... CFIT no exuse - none - zero - nada.... Busting a TFR - ADIZ, no excuse - none - zero - nada (there is also no excuse for the TFR's, but that is another rant) They are published... They don't move, they don't hide behind a cloud... You are required by regulatory law to review restricted and prohibited airspace along your route of flight before leaving the ground... There is no excuse... Now, how about other stuff... Such as running off the runway in a cross wind... An accident? Nope... Pilot error, pure and simple... If the pilot did his job he would know what the maximum crosswind the airplane can handle is, and he would have set a maximum crosswind that HE is prepared to handle... Should be right on his check list - e.g. 8 KT crosswind limit... Check the AWOS or ATIS and if it exceeds the limit, use another runway or another airport... Landing downwind and running off the end... doh!!!! Need we say more... Hitting the ground on an instrument approach (recent)... Pure pilot error... Either set the altimeter wrong, or went below minimums... Snuff one pilot... VFR into IMC (well, let's just go awhile and take a look, it should get better) uhuh, sure it will with an area forecast for lowering ceilings! Giving ATC your position from the airport 180 degrees wrong and altitude off by 2000 feet... (KJAX last year - hysterical, you should have heard it)... Finally admitted he had a new GPS and wasn't sure how to read it... (You should have heard the disgust in the controllers voice after he had to issue warnings to all aircraft in the area because this bozo did not know where he was (only off by 20 miles and 2000 feet)... Going to a dawn patrol last year, the V tail Bonanza last year that passed over top of me on downwind at least 2000 feet higher and announced he was on downwind... Then proceeded to angle left about 30 degrees unannounced (not a base turn), then make a hard 150 degree turn and announce he was short final (I was on base by then, and I had announced) while he was 3 miles out and still high... At this point I began to believe that this dip wad would run into me from behind if given the chance so I elected to make a right turn and continue downwind a bit, announcing to the heavy inbound traffic my intentions and position every ten seconds... I let him pass me close on the left and then completed my pattern, with a conga line of planes following me... On the ground one of the guys came over to me and said he was the plane behind me during landing and had just heard this bozo in the food line ranting about the 'idiot' that cut him off, and did I want to do anything about it as he would back up my story... I declined to make an issue of it and went on my way... All of us want to believe the best of our fellow pilots... But you only have to talk to your FSDO inspector for a bit to see how tired he is of hearing endless excuses for what was the pilot's responsibility to prevent in the first place... denny |
#16
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Knee Jerks
What's important (and sometimes forgotten) is to be sensitive to the
situation, as some people are suffering through a real tragedy at that moment. If some family member were to browse to an aviation group looking for answers, only to read that the pilot must have been an idiot . . . Sadly, that's a product of the anonymity of Usenet (for many), and the general decline in public decorum. Across society, manners have become uncommon. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#18
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Knee Jerks
by "Peter R." Feb 13, 2006 at 09:14 PM
I concluded that pilots, at least those whom I encountered locally, who were too quick to label an accident pilot were either overcompensating for their own aviation insecurities/inabilities or just had an overly large ego. I talked to my pilot friend about the rash of crashes the previous weekend (before the California Rash). He generally believes if the plane is well-maintained, and if the pilot is diligent and doesn't push minimums, the risk is minimal. I asked him about the seemingly obligatory post- crash commentary ("He was such a good pilot." or "He was a hero for avoiding the house/school/shopping center"), and asked if he thought the dead pilots might have the same opinions. He obviously considered this, but still seemed to think a crash was pretty much beyond the realm of possibility in his case. I think his attitude (Denial: Can't happen to me. I'm careful and fly a relatively new, well maintained plane) is a psychological defense mechanism to disregard the risk. It seems to me that the risk IS minimal for the well trained pilot who doesn't get too comfortable, but risk does exist and even a proficient pilot who does everything right might crash under a combination of problems and/or errors. |
#19
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Knee Jerks
Matt Whiting wrote in
: Dudley Henriques wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Why is it everytime someone posts an accident, there are those who quickly make a decision or pronouncement that it was stupid, or the pilot was a moron, or, etc, etc, and never have a clue as to the real happenings? Why does it take well trained professional crash investigators to do a full investigation that may last several weeks, months, years, to determine what happened when they could just take a quick look here and see what the "experts" have to say? There have been several crashes in recent days which is disturbing as hell to me and they have been well publicized. In nearly all of these crashes, there have been eye witnesses who breathlessly describe what they saw, or THINK they saw and the media laps it up as if it were gospel. Often the witness can't tell the difference in a Cessna and a Piper or a JetRanger. Then, to make matters worse, there are those amatuers, and a few more pros, who make immediate pronouncements as to what happened and who is to blame. I have been guilty of making statements in the past that turned out to be only partly right because I didn't have all the facts. In 50 years of flying I've learned that if you aren't in the airplane or ar not doing the flying, or are not looking right at the action with a professional eye, why make a fool of yourself with knee jerk statements? Dudley, if you are still here, what do you think? You've been around long enough and have been to enough crashes to have some ideas on the subject. Rocky Those of us like you and me and others like us who have been in the professional end of the community for any length of time usually tend to shy heavily away from the accident speculation business, as we know from actual experience how often the cause of an accident turns out to be something other than the obvious. Dudley Henriques And, fortunately, those of you who have been in the professional end of the community also abstain from posting in this ng every accident that you hear about. And for that many of us are grateful! Unfortunately, the amateurs likely will keep posting accidents and the amateur commentators will keep speculating... Matt So we should not discuss this??? I'm a student pilot, but I find the speculation, discussion of accidents very productive... No, we should not instantly label every pilot an idiot, but how many lives can one post and discussion here about an alleged "idiot" save?? How many pilots who read about a few guys with dry tanks who bought it, might be a bit more likely to divert for fuel rather than "push it".... just one example.... As far as I'm concerned, speculate away! (with reasonable respect....) -- -- ET :-) "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."---- Douglas Adams |
#20
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Knee Jerks
by Matt Whiting Feb 14, 2006 at 12:04 PM
And, fortunately, those of you who have been in the professional end of the community also abstain from posting in this ng every accident that you hear about. And for that many of us are grateful! For goodness sakes, a plane crash is NEWS! Even if you don't like it. Maybe just a blurb if its a minor crash and no one gets killed, maybe a longer story if people watch an idiot buzzing houses and then crashes into one, setting it ablaze. On the front page of today's New York Times, you will see an article entitled "No End to Questions on Cheney Hunting Incident." See? Unfortunately, the amateurs likely will keep posting accidents and the amateur commentators will keep speculating... Matt |
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