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#11
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And, in related news:
http://www.news.com.au/common/printp...628206,00.html See ya, Dave "nowhere" wrote in message m... Yes, according to Peter Garrison's "Aftermath" column in the November issue of "Flying" you don't need to connect your elevator control! I quote: "the NTSB report does not comment on the fact that a disconnected elevator does not make an ASW-20, or for that matter any other airplane, unflyable. The situation is aerodynamically no different from what occurs when the pilot removes his hand from the stick." I think I'll start leaving the elevators off my ASW-15 now. Imagine how the reduction in drag will improve the performance! Not having to worry about pitch control will certainly cut down on the cockpit workload as well. The benefits are endless! |
#12
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File this one under airfield legend. Flapped gliders with horizontal
stabs (as opposed to full flying) can be manuevered without full elevator authority, but you're as likely to die as not. As for the CFI, I suspect his elevator was semi-attached (cup on ball, but not locked). It is likely that the elevator came disconnected during the rollout on landing, thus the difficulty with aerotow. (Of course, you might be able to sell this one, if the cg was up around the rudder pedals.) Robert John wrote in message ... A chief flying instructor of my acquaintance flew about 300k without realising his elevator was disconnected (ASW20). The initial launch was a winch which was fine (back-pressure pushing the elevator up). He landed out at another airfield and took an aerotow retrieve. He had to release quickly and land ahead using trim when the glider climbed uncontrollably. The aerotow needed forward pressure on the stick (downward 'pull' on the elevator when on tow). At no time during the previous flight, including on winch launch, was this needed, though he did remark that the elevator has felt a little 'odd' at times! Rob At 16:12 30 October 2003, Mark Grubb wrote: .. 'nowhere' wrote in message om... Yes, according to Peter Garrison's 'Aftermath' column in the November 7issue of 'Flying' you don't need to connect your elevator control! I quote: 'the NTSB report does not comment on the fact that a disconnected elevator does not make an ASW-20, or for that matter any other airplane, unflyable. This is correct. I personally know of Several -20's and even a PIK-20 (no spoiers) that were flown and successfully landed without elevator control. I tested this mode in a -20C by 'locking' the pitch at the stick with tape (that would break should I need it to). It was not pretty, but I towed to 2K ft, released and landed with flaps and spoilers only. Not a huge deal. Keep your wits about you, practice, and you needn't die because of a disabled/disconnected control! |
#13
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No. It happened as Rob described it.
He rigged normally, and then put in water ballast including tail ballast. To put in the tail ballast he had to disconnect the elevator, and he forgot to re-connect it. Presumably he got away with it because the C. of G. was very close to the aft limit, and he changed speed by the correct use of flaps. During the winch launch the wire would tend to pull the nose down, so he would be applying up elevator. The trim would have been no help, because it is a spring acting on the elevator control circuit and is only connected to the elevator if the control is connected. I know the pilot. No-one knows better than he that he was very, very lucky. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... File this one under airfield legend. Flapped gliders with horizontal stabs (as opposed to full flying) can be manoeuvred without full elevator authority, but you're as likely to die as not. As for the CFI, I suspect his elevator was semi-attached (cup on ball, but not locked). It is likely that the elevator came disconnected during the rollout on landing, thus the difficulty with aerotow. (Of course, you might be able to sell this one, if the cg was up around the rudder pedals.) Robert John wrote in message ... A chief flying instructor of my acquaintance flew about 300k without realising his elevator was disconnected (ASW20). The initial launch was a winch which was fine (back-pressure pushing the elevator up). He landed out at another airfield and took an aerotow retrieve. He had to release quickly and land ahead using trim when the glider climbed uncontrollably. The aerotow needed forward pressure on the stick (downward 'pull' on the elevator when on tow). At no time during the previous flight, including on winch launch, was this needed, though he did remark that the elevator has felt a little 'odd' at times! Rob |
#14
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I stand corrected, but still find the story a little dubious. Flying a
three hundred kilometer flight without elevator (and not realizing it), especially with the cg well aft (less pitch stability), seems unlikely. Ah well, I suppose this qualifies as one of those "stranger things have happened." Lucky, indeed. Can I rub shoulders with him before the nationals next year? I can use that kind of luck! Cheers, OC "W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\)." wrote in message ... No. It happened as Rob described it. He rigged normally, and then put in water ballast including tail ballast. To put in the tail ballast he had to disconnect the elevator, and he forgot to re-connect it. Presumably he got away with it because the C. of G. was very close to the aft limit, and he changed speed by the correct use of flaps. During the winch launch the wire would tend to pull the nose down, so he would be applying up elevator. The trim would have been no help, because it is a spring acting on the elevator control circuit and is only connected to the elevator if the control is connected. I know the pilot. No-one knows better than he that he was very, very lucky. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message om... File this one under airfield legend. Flapped gliders with horizontal stabs (as opposed to full flying) can be manoeuvred without full elevator authority, but you're as likely to die as not. As for the CFI, I suspect his elevator was semi-attached (cup on ball, but not locked). It is likely that the elevator came disconnected during the rollout on landing, thus the difficulty with aerotow. (Of course, you might be able to sell this one, if the cg was up around the rudder pedals.) Robert John wrote in message ... A chief flying instructor of my acquaintance flew about 300k without realising his elevator was disconnected (ASW20). The initial launch was a winch which was fine (back-pressure pushing the elevator up). He landed out at another airfield and took an aerotow retrieve. He had to release quickly and land ahead using trim when the glider climbed uncontrollably. The aerotow needed forward pressure on the stick (downward 'pull' on the elevator when on tow). At no time during the previous flight, including on winch launch, was this needed, though he did remark that the elevator has felt a little 'odd' at times! Rob |
#15
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I suppose this qualifies as one of those "stranger
things have happened." Lucky, indeed. I'm with you, Chris. The disconnected elevator push rod can push against the bottom of the elevator and give somewhat normal up operation, but down is limited to the airstreem pushing it back down to neutral position. If the push rod ever slides past the aft end of the elevator, You have just had the snits. A good CRITICAL ASSEMBLY CHECK, anyone? JJ Sinclair |
#16
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JJ Sinclair wrote:
If the push rod ever slides past the aft end of the elevator, You have just had the snits. A good CRITICAL ASSEMBLY CHECK, anyone? Agree JJ, this cannot be stressed enough!! Not all pilots are as lucky as the cited fellow. I know of 2 ASW-20 pilots who died after having taken off without connecting the elevator. One of them was used to an LS with automatic control hookups, thus forgetting the positive post assembly control... Always do a positive controls check! Nils |
#17
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"Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message ... At 08:06 30 October 2003, Tango4 wrote: In this case the NTSB is wrong! With the elevator disconnected the run of the control rods are not connected to the flying surface. Therefore the mass balance of the system is different to that which was certified, the trim system is also disconnected! Definately *not* the same as just removing the pilots hand from the stick! Mind the flaps are the major pitch control in the ASW20, the elevator is there more for fine adjustment. A number of pilots have produced 'landings' using the flaps for pitch control in 20's with disconnected elevators. :-) PS: I'll bet that they don't comment on whether having the mainpin in or not makes the aircraft *flyable* either! Strange you should mention that. I understand that a long time ago someone took a Libelle for a local soaring flight and after a while became uncomfortable. After loosening his straps and having a fish around he produced the main pin, the only thing holding the wings together was friction on the spigots. I believe that some very gentle well co-ordinated flying ensued and he landed without incident. I know of a Kestrel 19 that's done the same, twice. The wing attach design is very much the same. The pin is not load bearing, but only locks the wings together. As long a 0 to negative G is avoided, they won't come off. |
#19
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I know of a Kestrel 19 that's done the same, twice. The wing attach design
is very much the same. The pin is not load bearing, but only locks the wings together. As long a 0 to negative G is avoided, they won't come off. Come on guys, this story is getting out of hand. Your asking us to believe that a Kestrel driver used his neat little wing assembly tool to force his wings together and then FORGOT to put the main pin in? And you say he did it twice? That pin is not load bearing, but any turbulance (like what we do to make the wing come out, on didassembly) will allow the wings to slide out and then our fictitious Kestrel driver would find himself wingless. JJ Sinclair |
#20
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