Student-Instructor question (USA)

that is the rule.. for the insurance company..

and I don't know of any "smart" instructor that would allow any student to
fly solo on any given day without the instructor knowing it and reviewing
that the student is prepared, has a plan, and has reviewed the weather and
forecast changes for the next few hours.

the student is flying on the instructors ticket.. (power or glider)

JMVHO
BT

"Ivan Kahn" wrote in message
news:M8vwb.296102$Fm2.312218@attbi_s04...
To my knowledge, there is no regulation to support the requirement for an
instructor to be present. I think this is just a requirement of the
insurance underwriter - which if in writing is binding.

Ivan

In article eCzwb.6342$ML6.2557@fed1read01,
"BTIZ" wrote:

that is the rule.. for the insurance company..

and I don't know of any "smart" instructor that would allow any student to
fly solo on any given day without the instructor knowing it and reviewing
that the student is prepared, has a plan, and has reviewed the weather and
forecast changes for the next few hours.

the student is flying on the instructors ticket.. (power or glider)

Here in New Zealand, being able to fly without an instructor on the
field is a relatively advanced rating. Traditionally, quite a large
number of things have been independently signed off in your logbook --
ratings for particular aircraft, front seat passenger rating, back seat
passenger rating, cross country rating, aerobatics rating, independent
operations rating, etc.

A few years ago the powers here rolled a number of these into a single
"Qualified glider pilot" endorsement but I notice that my logbook is now
endorsed:

Qualified Glider Pilot approved for independent operations.
Approved for independent cross-country operations (list of types).

I don't know for sure, but this leads me to believe that it might be
possible to have the "Qualified Glider Pilot", but still fly only when
an instructor is present on the field.

In any case, "present" means something like: was there in the morning,
discussed your plans (which might simply be "local soaring"), talked
about anything unusual about the day's weather (and for newbies, check
if they've flown in similar weather, and perhaps give a quick check
flight), and the weather hasn't changed too much since then.

It's perfectly OK for the instructor to be off-field at lunch, or in
another glider, or in the tow plane or the workshop (i.e. they might not
be "on duty" as an instructor, but simply qualified as an instructor).

-- Bruce

"Ivan Kahn" wrote in message
news:M8vwb.296102$Fm2.312218@attbi_s04...
To my knowledge, there is no regulation to support the requirement for an
instructor to be present. I think this is just a requirement of the
insurance underwriter - which if in writing is binding.

Ivan


It may not even be a requirement of the insurance underwriter. It may just
be a requirement of Costello (SSA insurance). When Costello sells
insurance through the SSA plan there is always a requirement for a "cockpit
check-out" by a CFI. I have insurance underwritten by AIG, the same
insurance underwriter as for the SSA plan, and there is no such requirement.
Perhaps Costello makes a few extra requirements of his own.

Duane

"BTIZ" wrote
and I don't know of any "smart" instructor that would allow any student to
fly solo on any given day without the instructor knowing it and reviewing
that the student is prepared, has a plan, and has reviewed the weather and
forecast changes for the next few hours.

Then both I and the instructor who soloed me must not be "smart."
When I was soloed, it was three trips around the patch while the
instructor watched (and NOT with a radio) and then you're on your own.
When I solo a student, it's the same way. If I didn't trust the
student's judgment in making the go/no-go decision, I wouldn't have
soloed him. If I knew that due to lack of experience with certain
conditions his judgment in some specific area was still not
sufficiently developed, I would enter an appropriate restriction in
his logbook.

"Needs prior permission for each individual flight" is not an
appropriate restriction. The only justification for such a
restriction is that the student's judgment is not sufficiently
developed to make a go/no-go decision at all. That means he's not
ready to solo, regardless of how well he can wiggle the stick.

Michael

"BTIZ" wrote:
and I don't know of any "smart" instructor
that would allow any student to fly solo on
any given day without the instructor knowing
it and reviewing that the student is prepared,
has a plan, and has reviewed the weather
and forecast changes for the next few hours.

wrote:
Then both I and the instructor who soloed me
must not be "smart." When I was soloed, it was
three trips around the patch while the instructor
watched (and NOT with a radio) and then you're
on your own.

Same here, Michael. CFIG was on the ground and watched my first two solos (also
no radios where I fly), and then I was encouraged to solo as often as I could.
I usually scheduled flights when he was there, in case I had questions (still
prefer it that way), but there is always at least one CFIG at the site. As for
discussing *every* flight with regard to a plan, weather, etc., that is done
many times prior to solo, so decision-making is already addressed and observed.
Even post license, everyone shares info about weather, locations of known or
potential lift, or anything else that is useful prior to flying. Everyone
watches out for others, and obviously no one there would tow anyone--solo
student or seasoned pilot--up in weather they shouldn't be in.

--Shirley

Also, our insurance states that there will be an instructor "on the field",
with solo students, but does that mean, feet on ground?

My club http://www.soargbsc.org is insured by Costello and has the same
statement. We asked for a clarification and were informed that the
instructor has to be on the field to approve the flight. The instructor
is then free to perform other tasks - including flying his own glider
for fun (what a concept :-).

Tony V

Tony Verhulst tony.verhulst wrote:

My club http://www.soargbsc.org is insured by
Costello and has the same statement. We asked
for a clarification and were informed that the
instructor has to be on the field to approve the
flight. The instructor is then free to perform
other tasks - including flying his own glider for
fun (what a concept :-).

Does the insurance say whether the instructor approving the flight has to be
the same instructor who signed the student off to solo?

Tony wrote.The instructor
is then free to perform other tasks - including flying his own glider
for fun (what a concept :-).

I watched a first time solo, student deploy the spoilers and then disappear
below the cliff on the approach end to 19 at Truckee. His instructor was in the
can, taking a dump. All that was necessary to prevent this accident was for the
instructor to be watching with a hand held radio. A simple,"Close your
spoilers" would have been all it took. I think any instructor has a moral
responsibility to observe his students, especially during their first 3 solo's.
JJ Sinclair

Does the insurance say whether the instructor approving the flight has to be
the same instructor who signed the student off to solo?

They said that it doesn't matter.

Tony V.