Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...

vic20owner wrote:
....I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23
or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it
quite a bit.


If you have *any* desire to fly xc, do *not* buy the Blanik - unless
you're guaranteed to land out at an airport and get an aero retrieve
home :-). As the joy of flying is important, so is the joy (or lack
thereof), of rigging and derigging. Also. it's much easier to get one
helper to pull you out of that hay field than the 2 or 3 helpers that
you'd need for the Blanik.

Tony LS6-b "6N"

Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still
flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany
all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping
on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to
Charleston.

Just another thought!

Although the K-8 is not and I repeat not as pretty as the 1-26!

Bob

Guys, great info ... many points I was not aware of regarding the
Blanik. Obviously I meant L-13 not L-12.. but anyway, sounds like I
have quite a bit more to consider than I had initially thought. Also,
I hadn't considered buying from over seas but this sounds like a good
option also... except for perhaps finding a way to inspect the plane
prior to purchase.

I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I
would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I
went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take
someone else flying.

-tom

In article
,
vic20owner wrote:

I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I
would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I
went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take
someone else flying.

In my opinion, and that of a lot of people I've talked to who are much
smarter than me, this is the right way to think about a purchase. A lot
of people say, "I want to buy a two-seater so I can give rides!" But
look around you: how many glider owners do you see who own a two-seater?
Odds are that it's a very small proportion. (At my club the number has
been either 1 or 0 since I joined, as compared to perhaps a dozen
single-seaters.)

What's the point of buying your own glider? Obviously individual reasons
vary, but it's typically so you can take it places, so you can fly it
cross country, so you can stay up as long as you want (and as long as
the weather allows) without someone telling you that your hour is up,
and so you can have something that's nicer than what your local club or
glider rental has to offer.

What happens when you take a passenger? They're usually around your home
field, so no need to take it places. They're rarely interested in flying
cross country. Half the time they get uncomfortable (or sick) if you try
to push past 30-60 minutes airborne. And knowing nothing about gliders,
they'll probably completely fail to appreciate how much better your
machine is than the club's.

It's possible that your situation is different, of course, but if you're
like most people, your best bet is to buy a good single-seater that you
will enjoy for your solo flying, and rent a convenient two-seater for
the relatively rare occasions when you take people for rides.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On May 5, 9:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I
have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there
are associated with buying a used glider.

I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well
within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections
are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else
should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious
structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I
consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent
rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which
is major (wing struts, etc)?

Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance
records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay
someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase?

Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first
used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)?

Thanks
-tom

If you plan to fly alot, buy a single seat ship. If you turn out like
most of the pilots I know, you'll probably fly solo a majority of the
time. For the occasions when you want to take someone for ride, rent
the club two-seater.

Do not base your purchase options solely on the ships you learn in.
There's way too many possibilities for a better fit for your needs
than to be limiting yourself so much.

To help get you started in your research for your first ship, pick up
a hard copy of the sailplane directory. There's a nice section by
Derek Piggot regarding different ships and handling qualities/
suitability for low-timers. It also gives other good information like
cockpit size, rigging difficulty, ground handling, etc. You could
also take a look at Piggot's book "Gliding Safety". It also has some
good information about the suitability of certain ships as a "first
glider".

Good luck!

Brian Bange wrote:
You can get a LAK12
with almost twice the L/D for the same price, but watch your
friends scatter when you open the box.

Or you can purchase a LAK-12 with PU finish with proper rigging aids
such that it is easily assembled by one man. Then have a good set of
full covers (such as Jaxida) and leave the ship assembled during soaring
season. Upon arrival at the airport you are "ready to fly" in under 5
minutes.

Yes. I have exactly that ship with that setup for sale. ;-)

Regards,

-Doug

p.s. the LAK-12 is not a beginner's sailplane, though it is easy to fly.

Bob wrote:
Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still
flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany
all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping
on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to
Charleston.



K8s are fun to fly, but very dispiriting if you have any headwind at
all. If you have USD10-20k to spend, and want to do any more than soar
locally around your home airfield, then glass is the only way to go
IMHO. I've had fun flying a K6, in which you can do good XC flying, but
this also becomes too tiring for a new XC pilot - serious XC in a K6 is
for the more experienced pilot.

The advantage of anything with a claimed 38:1 L/D or better (Astir,
ASW15, Libelle, etc) is that you can fly into wind and sample more than
one or two potential thermals. With the K6, K8 and, I suspect, the I-26,
if you don't connect first or second time you're on the ground.

As other posters have said, you will want a glider which (a) has a good
trailer and (b) is easy to rig. Every glider is made easier to rig with
two or more trestles (wood, nails hinges and carpet - dead easy to
build), and one man rigging gear can be really effective if you have
space in the trailer to store it. As an example, I fly a 1968 Open
Cirrus, which has pretty heavy wings and is not thought easy to rig.
With home-made (sub-USD100) rigging gear I can assemble it without help
in up to 15kt winds in about 20 mins. This means I can take it anywhere
to fly it, and even self-retrieve by hitch-hiking back and collecting
the trailer (though I've not yet alienated my friends so much as to need
to do so).

I used to fly a Grob Astir (again, not thought easy to rig), and using
two trestles and a simple wing root dolly two of us could assemble it in
15 mins with almost no lifting. One man rig would have been possible if
the trailer had had space to store the gear.

Leaving the glider assembled is very much over-rated. Apart from
anything else, if you're experienced in putting it together and taking
it apart, then you have no fear of heading off XC because, after all, it
needs to be disassembled somewhere (so why not a field?). I've known
friends who don't fly XC because they're afraid they'll have problems
retrieving the glider if they land out - I know mine will be back in the
trailer in 15 mins, so off I go.

In summary, my advice would be:

a. Buy 38:1 L/D (claimed) or better;

b. A good trailer is essential;

c. Assemble/dissassemble every time you fly until this is no barrier to
flying/going somewhere - make as many rigging aids as you need to make
this easy.

d. Fly it lots! Rig unless it's clearly not soarable. Don't be one of
those pilots who says, mid-afternoon, "it would have been worth rigging
after all". If you don't launch, it's only 15 mins (see (c) above) to
put the glider back in its trailer after all.

Chris Reed wrote:

Leaving the glider assembled is very much over-rated. Apart from
anything else, if you're experienced in putting it together and taking
it apart, then you have no fear of heading off XC because, after all, it
needs to be disassembled somewhere (so why not a field?). I've known
friends who don't fly XC because they're afraid they'll have problems
retrieving the glider if they land out

My experience was just the opposite. I had my longest x-country flight
ever in the LAK-12, i.e., I ventured much farther away from home. The
glide and performance are very confidence-inspiring. But I agree with
you that one should have competent rigging/derigging aids, which my LAK
has, so that fear of land-out is removed from the equation. I have no
fear whatsoever of outlanding and field derigging. They are easy to
take apart because precision alignment is not an issue. Reassembling
however is best done on a hard and level surface back at the airport.

Regards,

-Doug

On May 6, 9:32*pm, Chris Reed wrote:
Bob wrote:
Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still
flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany
all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping
on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to
Charleston.

K8s are fun to fly, but very dispiriting if you have any headwind at
all. If you have USD10-20k to spend, and want to do any more than soar
locally around your home airfield, then glass is the only way to go
IMHO. I've had fun flying a K6, in which you can do good XC flying, but
this also becomes too tiring for a new XC pilot - serious XC in a K6 is
for the more experienced pilot.

Chris

I wasn't advocating the K-8 as much as giving it as an alternative to
the 1-26, same performance for less money.

I agree totally about glass! An Astir, Cirrus, ASW15... The list is
endless and all can be had for 10-20$ with sutable (not perfect but
usable) trailer.

Bob (Who's first plane purchase is a part of a Nimbus 3DT)

Dont rule out a share in a higher performance 2 seater. At our club we have
about 8 syndicates with high performance 2 seaters such as AS25, Duo
Discus, DG1000t and Nimbus 3dt. The share price would be about the same
but the running costs, insurance etc are split several ways. The
advantages are that you are very often flying with experienced pilots ( I
can think of several national champions and national team members.)who can
teach and coach you in cross country techniques and advanced soaring. It is
also companionable and one can be flying the aircraft whilst the other is
navigating, sorting out the sandwiches, using the radio etc.

Nigel