If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com... [snip] Very interesting. So what is the basis on which a controller accepts or denies a request for a more direct route? Is it just avoiding conflicts in his own airspace? When a controller issues an updated clearance that substantially changes the routing is he just ensuring there are no conflict in his own area??? 1) Pretty much. Add in a bit of making life easier (for either himself, the next controller, the aircraft, or some combination of the three - in that order) and the experience based knowledge of what the next sector is likely to want or accept. 2) He's *always* ensuring there are no conflicts (or at least none that turn into "deals") in his airspace. Everything else is secondary. If it's a major re-route that involves happenings far down the road it's likely it came out of the ARTCC computer. The reasons behind that are many and complex. All the controller knows for sure (or cares about) is to issue it as written and get the aircraft to the (new?) fix at the boundary of his airspace where he can handoff. Major re-routes involving multiple airway or fix changes that remain within a single sector would normally violate 1) above so I never saw much of that. At least not at the terminal level. Generally speaking controllers are fairly autonomous and insular. Within the constraints of the local LOAs and SOPs they can do whatever they want within their own airspace. Their prime concern is what's going on in their airspace right now. At the operational level they don't normally know or care what's going on in someone else's airspace (so long as it doesn't affect their ops with bad or refused handoffs, excess coordination, a flood of poorly spaced inbounds, etc). The object of the exercise is to take the aircraft, do whatever needs doing with it, get rid of it, take the next one, do what needs doing, get rid of that one, take the next one, lather, rinse, repeat until relief plugs in and says "I've got it." |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
On Mar 27, 6:13 pm, Roy Smith wrote:
"Bob Gardner" wrote: I used to handle that by saying to the new controller "BuzzBomb 234X, 7000 feet, on a vector." A previous controller can't issue an instruction that has any effect in a subsequent sector, to the best of my knowledge, and the "new" controller can do whatever s/he needs to do without regard for what the previous controller did or said. I was taught that when on a vector, to check in with "New York, Cessna 123, assigned 270 heading". No altitude? -Robert |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
In article .com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote: On Mar 27, 6:13 pm, Roy Smith wrote: "Bob Gardner" wrote: I used to handle that by saying to the new controller "BuzzBomb 234X, 7000 feet, on a vector." A previous controller can't issue an instruction that has any effect in a subsequent sector, to the best of my knowledge, and the "new" controller can do whatever s/he needs to do without regard for what the previous controller did or said. I was taught that when on a vector, to check in with "New York, Cessna 123, assigned 270 heading". No altitude? Altitude if it's a handoff to a new facility. A new controller in the same facility, no altitude. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
Robert M. Gary wrote: Sorry if I sound dumb but I really have no idea how this works. So, when the controller working the San Jose arrivals issued me a direct clearance, I know he spoke with the next controller (who was working Stockton area), but the updated clearance also affected the controller working south of Sacramento, etc. Yes. The strip would be updated by whichever controller has control of the flight plan. Since my updated clearance affected this Sacramento controller too (since it affects my route through his airspace), doesn't he need to be in on the updated clearance as well?? No. He takes what is given to him. He has a 30 minute advance notice of arrivals. If there's something he doesn't like he can call the sector where the airplane will come from and slap on a restriction. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
On Mar 28, 9:02 pm, Newps wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote: Sorry if I sound dumb but I really have no idea how this works. So, when the controller working the San Jose arrivals issued me a direct clearance, I know he spoke with the next controller (who was working Stockton area), but the updated clearance also affected the controller working south of Sacramento, etc. Yes. The strip would be updated by whichever controller has control of the flight plan. Since my updated clearance affected this Sacramento controller too (since it affects my route through his airspace), doesn't he need to be in on the updated clearance as well?? No. He takes what is given to him. He has a 30 minute advance notice of arrivals. If there's something he doesn't like he can call the sector where the airplane will come from and slap on a restriction. Wow, I can really see how the "Direct" clearance can really mess stuff up. I guess when it was all airways it was pretty easy because you always knew where planes would come from and where the conflicts would happen. -Robert |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
Robert M. Gary wrote: Wow, I can really see how the "Direct" clearance can really mess stuff up. I guess when it was all airways it was pretty easy because you always knew where planes would come from and where the conflicts would happen. With the same amount of traffic there's less conflicts simply because all the airplanes aren't meeting in the same spots. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
Newps writes:
Robert M. Gary wrote: Wow, I can really see how the "Direct" clearance can really mess stuff up. I guess when it was all airways it was pretty easy because you always knew where planes would come from and where the conflicts would happen. With the same amount of traffic there's less conflicts simply because all the airplanes aren't meeting in the same spots. Interesting and not obvious to the uninitiated. Is it possible to eyeball the scope and readily determine if several crossing routes are going to conflict or does the diversity of altitudes eliminate most? |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
How do controllers coordinate clearances through sectors?
All my aircraft entering the airspace are converging on a single point
for the most part. All the departures are woven thru the arrivals while climbing. I have very little traffic in cruise flight just passing thru. Most traffic I can eyeball to see if they'll be a conflict. Everett M. Greene wrote: Newps writes: Robert M. Gary wrote: Wow, I can really see how the "Direct" clearance can really mess stuff up. I guess when it was all airways it was pretty easy because you always knew where planes would come from and where the conflicts would happen. With the same amount of traffic there's less conflicts simply because all the airplanes aren't meeting in the same spots. Interesting and not obvious to the uninitiated. Is it possible to eyeball the scope and readily determine if several crossing routes are going to conflict or does the diversity of altitudes eliminate most? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Big Debts are costing troops their Security clearances | Tiger | Naval Aviation | 8 | October 28th 06 01:53 AM |
Obtaining IFR clearances in Canada | Andrew Sarangan | Instrument Flight Rules | 10 | July 22nd 04 03:47 PM |
Question: civilian contractors and security clearances | Charlie Wolf | Naval Aviation | 5 | July 6th 04 03:54 AM |
Clearances for Practice | Jerry Kaidor | Instrument Flight Rules | 1 | March 28th 04 07:00 PM |
Where is approach good about multiple approaches and clearances in the air? | Andrew Gideon | Instrument Flight Rules | 29 | February 14th 04 02:51 AM |