A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

German forward swept wing WWII fighter projects.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 11th 04, 07:36 AM
Charles Gray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default German forward swept wing WWII fighter projects.

Here's a question-- the Germans had several forward swept wing designs
in the works during WWII.
However, I recall reading that even in the 1980's the strain on the
airframe made such a design very difficult to successfully carry off.
That being the case, was there any realistic chance that such fighter
designs could have been successfully fielded, or is this a case of a
severe underestimation of the problems by the engineers?

Ads
  #2  
Old January 11th 04, 11:50 AM
robert arndt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charles Gray wrote in message . ..
Here's a question-- the Germans had several forward swept wing designs
in the works during WWII.
However, I recall reading that even in the 1980's the strain on the
airframe made such a design very difficult to successfully carry off.
That being the case, was there any realistic chance that such fighter
designs could have been successfully fielded, or is this a case of a
severe underestimation of the problems by the engineers?


A partial list of the projects:

He p.1076
Bv p.209/II
Ju EF 122
Ju EF 125
Bv P.188.01 (variable incidence wing)

Of course there were swept-forward proposals for the Ar 234, He 162,
Me-262, and the Misteln too. The only real aircraft with forward sweep
that the Germans got into the air was the Ju-287 jet bomber which flew
well enough for the Soviets to copy it in the USSR.
Postwar, West Germany had the MBB HFB 320 Hansa jet that worked well
too, the US toyed with the X-29, and today the Russians have the Su-47
Berkut (aka Firkin).

Rob
  #3  
Old January 11th 04, 12:11 PM
robert arndt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charles Gray wrote in message . ..
Here's a question-- the Germans had several forward swept wing designs
in the works during WWII.
However, I recall reading that even in the 1980's the strain on the
airframe made such a design very difficult to successfully carry off.
That being the case, was there any realistic chance that such fighter
designs could have been successfully fielded, or is this a case of a
severe underestimation of the problems by the engineers?


Some pics:

Ju-287: http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/Ju287-7.jpg
Ju EF 131: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/His...7/Ju-287V3.jpg
Ju EF 140: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/His.../Ef-140R_1.jpg
MBB Hansa: http://www.flygplan.info/images/Hans...0320%20ECM.jpg

Enjoy,
Rob
  #4  
Old January 11th 04, 01:45 PM
Andreas Parsch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charles Gray wrote:

Here's a question-- the Germans had several forward swept wing designs
in the works during WWII.
However, I recall reading that even in the 1980's the strain on the
airframe made such a design very difficult to successfully carry off.
That being the case, was there any realistic chance that such fighter
designs could have been successfully fielded, or is this a case of a
severe underestimation of the problems by the engineers?


The latter, essentially. The Germans weren't really aware of the aerodynamic
wing twisting problems of FSW in high speed aircraft. In fact, the Ju 287
prototypes were limited to relatively low speeds ( 400 mph) for exactly
this reason. While the engineers tried to make the wings more stiff, this
would have only pushed the limit slightly up but wouldn't have solved the
problem. A high-speed FSW can't be made without modern composite materials.

Andreas

  #5  
Old January 11th 04, 01:49 PM
Andreas Parsch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

robert arndt wrote:

A partial list of the projects:

He p.1076
Bv p.209/II
Ju EF 122
Ju EF 125
Bv P.188.01 (variable incidence wing)


"Paper" projects only.


Of course there were swept-forward proposals for the Ar 234, He 162,
Me-262, and the Misteln too. The only real aircraft with forward sweep
that the Germans got into the air was the Ju-287 jet bomber which flew
well enough for the Soviets to copy it in the USSR.


Probably only to find out what we know today: That the wing-twisting problem
couldn't be solved with 1940s materials and technology. After all, the
Soviets didn't field any operational FSW aircraft so far.

Postwar, West Germany had the MBB HFB 320 Hansa jet that worked well
too,


Only very slightly forward-swept (for completely other reasons than
high-speed flight), and max speed was well below the problematic regime.

the US toyed with the X-29, and today the Russians have the Su-47
Berkut (aka Firkin).


Both using modern composite wings and flight-control systems. _Today_ you
can build high-speed FSWs, but not in 1945.

Andreas

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canard planes swept wing outer VG's? Paul Lee Home Built 8 January 4th 04 08:10 PM
Soviet Submarines Losses - WWII Mike Yared Military Aviation 4 October 30th 03 03:09 AM
8th Fighter Wing training for war Otis Willie Military Aviation 0 October 4th 03 07:39 PM
Forward Swept Wings Canuck Bob Home Built 16 October 3rd 03 05:50 PM
48th Fighter Wing adds JDAM to F-15 arsenal Otis Willie Military Aviation 0 July 22nd 03 09:18 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.