what flight planning software do you use?

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:55:02 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

"ALL"? Come on. No pilot ever takes advantage of literally all information
relating to their flight. You have to draw the line somewhere. You are

The ALL that I refer to is what the FAA refers to. To be specific I want
to know details about my route of flight, notams, tfr's, weather, and of
course the airports, including starting and ending, and the ones in
between. Software makes that easy and relatively painfree compared to
plotting it by hand. I've tried that. Called FSS got a briefing and a
TFR. They told me it was by such and such a road at this speedway. I'm
not from that area, I had no idea where it was, it sure wasn't on my
charts I'll tell you that. So, I had to drag out a street atlas, locate
it and transfer it to my chart. My software can do that in one click. I
still call and get briefings even after my software has done it's job
because I don't trust it when it comes to TFR's. And with the President
campaigning all over the country you better know where you're at because
my plane can't fly over those...

should look at disdain at you? For the record, I do not look at disdain
upon you, but I also feel it's hypocritical for you to look with disdain at

I believe a pilot who does not get a briefing before flying is asking for
trouble and they need to be weeded out. Explain to me why it's that hard
to call FSS and ask for a briefing. Tell me why recently we had a posting
from a person who said they flew to their destination only to find it
closed? I wonder what they forgot to do? I'm not saying I look with
disdain upon you, I look with disdain upon those pilots who could have got
a briefing via software, telephone, or in person and chose not to because
it wasn't comfortable.

I maintain that if they got the pertinent info for their flight they would
not have arrived to find the airport closed. In the case here locally the
pilot called their son to have him meet her at our airport, he arrived and
asked us if we had seen so and so cub. We told him the airport was closed
and had been for quite some time, but we saw a cub fly past and assumed it
went to another nearby airport. When she got there she was a nervous
wreck according to the FBO there because she hadn't planned on this
happening and couldn't catch her son on the phone. He showed up and all
was well due to help from others, but I maintain this pilot is a menace
and should learn to call FSS for a briefing. The key is, they didn't plan
and that's going to bite the rest of us in the ass some day. It's our
responsibility to insure fellow pilots do things the right way, not just
turn our head and mutter that SOB's going to kill somebody someday.

I don't like it myself, but I deal with it because I don't want to be the
cause of problems. Our airport closed early for work due to this, a pilot
didn't get a briefing and wasn't aware of construction going on, I don't
know how he missed all the torn up ground and X's on one of the runways,
but anyhow he managed to get spooked when he saw equipment on the runway
and called the FAA to report an incursion. Wouldn't have happened had he
known what was going on, so the city closed the airport altogether
because one pilot didn't get a briefing and the city was protecting it's
assets.

That's how important briefings can be, and I maintain that for those who
are scared of calling FSS or don't want the hassle, software is suitable
for it and should be used.

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in message
news
I believe a pilot who does not get a briefing before flying is asking for
trouble and they need to be weeded out.

You are confusing getting a complete preflight briefing with using flight
planning software. I do the former without doing the latter, and I take
offense at your claim that I need to be "weeded out".

Pete

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:41:55 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in message
news
I believe a pilot who does not get a briefing before flying is asking for
trouble and they need to be weeded out.

You are confusing getting a complete preflight briefing with using flight
planning software. I do the former without doing the latter, and I take
offense at your claim that I need to be "weeded out".

Read what I wrote, nowhere did I say you need to be weeded out. I don't
know how you got that absurd idea into your head but I didn't say it and
if you read my post you'll see I didn't even imply it.

Now, you apparently are not familiar with good flight planning software
because it allows you to get a complete briefing from FSS. I call FSS in
addition because I want my voice on tape getting a briefing just in case.

What I am trying to get across is that software allows a pilot to get a
complete briefing including graphic maps of weather and other items
related to flight faster and more accurately than calling FSS. I've even
had to remind the local FSS of a notam they forgot to include, when I'd
ask them what about x they'd know that I already had a briefing and
usually said so. I've never had to remind my software about a notam that
was missing in the briefing. The local FSS is good at interpreting things
for you, but they miss things where the software doesn't.

Not to mention that on a long cross country the local FSS will tell you to
call the other FSS for information there, they don't provide things beyond
their own area, the computer software does it all at once so it's faster.

That's all I'm saying, it's useful and accurate. Pilots should take
advantage of it. If you can't that's fine, but if you can you should
because it's more likely to keep you out of trouble than a phone call
would. FSS is not always on top of notams, even when they're in the
system.

Read this, I know you said you call FSS for a briefing, I'm not saying you
are dangerous. I am saying pilots that don't, or won't, those are the
ones who cause trouble. Software just makes it painless.

I hope you realize I am cautious in my flying, I do everything in my power
to insure a great flight. I plan it all, and nothing makes me more
pleased than seeing a hand done plan come out on time and on course. I
also enjoy VFR flying, using pilotage and DED Reckoning are just plain
fun, but software is another tool in your bag of tricks.

I can't speak for Vince......

Well, you did it pretty well, Pete.

vince norris

Didn't my post answer that question, Pete?

No. I saw no statement in your post ...

Technically, you're right, of course. I was responding to the spirit,
not the letter, of the question. And indirectly, I was responding to a
generalized version of question three--i.e., I was commenting
adversely on the *dependence* on all such programs.

vince norris

I don't doubt you are fast, but I would suggest that a computer doing a
1,000 nm cross country could do it faster than you

What is the value in that? A beginner with a "point-and-shoot" camera
can take a picture of Half Dome at Yosemite a lot faster than Ansel
Adams could, but is that how you would judge photography?

And I'll wager Ansel Adams got a lot more fun and satisfaction from
doing it his way than the person with the point-and-shoot.

There is no way a pilot can call the many FSS's and get briefings from
each of them

Why would anyone want to do that?

.... I'm apprehensive about a big cross country.

It's good to be cautious, but experience will enable you to overcome
apprehension.

I disagree with the 2 pilots who claim they don't need, nor understand anybody using it. I
believe to not use it is irresponsible and that's why we have pilot's breaking TFR's daily,

Now you've gone off the deep end. Do you also think it's
irresponsible to fly without a GPS? How about flying a J-3 with no
radio?

I've been flying since 1946, both civilian and military, and have
never wandered into any area I shouldn't have. GOOD PLANNING is
important. It doesn't have to be done with a computer program.

plus the sad habit of not getting briefs.

That's another matter entirely.

vince norris

Sridhar Rajagopal wrote in message ...
Hi,

I was wondering about the following:

1) how many people actually use any kind of flight planning software
(VFR and IFR)?
2) If you do use it, which one do you use?
3) how would you rate it?

Thanks!
Sridhar


I use fligh soft. You can download Duats as well. However I never
rely soly on this and call for a weather briefing once at the airport
to make sure nothing has changed. That's the thing about weather, it
get away with anything it wants to, when it wants to.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:00:18 -0400, vincent p. norris wrote:

I wasn't objecting to obtaining weather maps, etc., via the internet.
was objecting to depending on a computer to plan the route and do the
navigating for you.

Just because you use software does not mean you let it plan your routes
for you. I use mine and select my route, picking my stops based on fuel
prices that would take me forever if I called each airport up and asked
them what they charge.

But that's entirely irrelevant to the topic of this thread. You' keep
changing the subject.

Guilty as charged, but I changed it based on responses from others.

No, it was painless long before software, or even personal computers,
came into existence.

OK, it's painless, but it takes longer. Unlike you I don't enjoy spending
half a day planning a 1,000 nm cross country. I want to get it planned as
fast as I can so I can do other things. With software I can plan my route
based on the same thing I'd do with paper charts. I select my route based
on obstructions/terrain, stops for fuel/facilities/food, and scenic things
to look at. Just because I use a computer to do it does not remove me
from the planning stages. I still do exactly the same thing except it's
in front of me at once, not spread across a room.

You mentioned not calling each FSS for a brief, how in the world do you
avoid TFR's then? If you call only your local FSS they will not tell you
of a TFR that's out of their region. They won't tell you of notams
outside their region. How can you avoid oncoming weather if you don't
call other FSS's? What your local FSS gives you is not the complete
picture, and yes I know it changes and will be different by the time you
get there, but it's handy to know if things are getting better or worse
before you go.

I suppose you fly a Cub and that's why you don't call, it makes sense,
you'll take too long to get there and any brief you got before would be
useless anyhow, but some of us fly faster planes and in a couple hours can
travel across states and so a call to another FSS is required if you want
to be aware of all pertinent information regarding your route of flight.
Don't forget, if you don't get a briefing you're violating FAR's.

§91.103 Preflight action.

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar
with all available information concerning that flight. This information
must include --

You can read the rest, but the catchall phrase is all information
concerning that flight. So, how can you not violate a FAR by refusing to
call other FSS's for additional information that your local FSS can't
supply? If you were to fly to New York, how would you avoid the
Presidential TFR's if you won't call a different FSS? I've tried to get
that information from my local FSS and they don't give it out and tell me
to call the other FSS. My airport is shortening it's runway, if you don't
call our FSS and get that info you could violate a FAR because runway
length is a mandatory item. So, if your FSS won't give it to you, and you
won't call mine, how can you make the flight legally?

This is how I got off topic, my software does all that for me, that's why
it's useful. Then when I check with the FSS I already know what I should
be told and can quiz them. I can't quiz the computer so that's another
reason I call.

As I said before, pilots should take advantage of any technology they can
have access to so that they avoid trouble. Those who can and refuse I
don't understand. I have friends who wouldn't know a computer if it bit
them in the ass, and they also fly a plane with no radio and won't call
FSS either. I don't believe that's being responsible, and I believe it's
a violation of the FAR's to boot.

Yes, all this can be done the old way, I think it's painful to call many
FSS's and get many briefings, and spend hours pouring over a chart and
calling each airport near my intended fuel stops to check for fuel
pricing. I'd rather be flying and by using software I can get the big
picture quickly. My apprehension about long cross countries will never go
away because I know pilots who've blundered into TFR's that their local
FSS didn't advise them of, and things change with TFR's. I don't
understand how you can be so calm about flying a big cross country based
on what can happen if you don't call the local FSS to that area for TFR's
and such. Flying it is easy, but the risk of a TFR violation is greatly
increased by not doing a very complete briefing, one that would take you
hours upon hours if you do it the old way.

In case you haven't noticed, I resent how our airspace is managed now, I
like the way I used to fly. There is such freedom in just going to the
airport and hopping in the plane and droning along. It's more stressful
now that we have all these silly TFR's and rules of loitering. How am I
supposed to know where a stadium is that's 500 miles away? How can I
avoid what I don't know to avoid? Sure, I can fly higher than 3K, but
suppose I see something I want to look at, how do I know if I can?

Software helps me find those damn things faster than I could using any
other means. That my friend is why I believe it's irresponsible to not
use every tool at your disposal. It's much too easy to become familiar
with your route now a days to not do so, and I don't want to be the guy
who violates a TFR that gets GA grounded forever. With the govt. in
charge now I wouldn't put it past them to ground GA if too many
presidential TFR's get busted.

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in message
news
OK, it's painless, but it takes longer. Unlike you I don't enjoy spending
half a day planning a 1,000 nm cross country.

I have never spent half a day planning a 1000 NM XC. And that's not for
lack of having flown a 1000 NM XC. For the longer XCs, the most I typically
spend on flight planning is a couple of hours, and usually I have it done in
an hour. That includes planning alternates and getting a weather briefing,
along with a review of the charts that even a person using flight planning
software would have to do.

I'm sitting wondering if the reason it takes you so long to plan a 1000 NM
XC without a computer is because you are so dependent on your flight
planning software.

Pete

You mentioned not calling each FSS for a brief, how in the world do you
avoid TFR's then?

Do you check wx with Flight Service as you fly along? You can call
FSS's the same way. I also get "into the system" by requesting traffic
advisories.

I suppose you fly a Cub

No, a PA 28 (with radios).

you'll take too long to get there

I *plan* my long-distance flights days before take-off. I talk to FSS
before leaving for the airport, after checking wx, etc., on the net.

I fly legs of about three hours and talk to FSS at each stop.

Once in awhile I change my route because of unexpected changes in wx,
but not very often. (I can go IFR if necessary.)

vince norris