A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Air Force fighter pilots train in tactic that scopes out enemy targets, By Franklin Fisher, Stars and Stripes



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old June 11th 04, 04:54 PM
Ed Rasimus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:31:17 -0500, Alan Minyard
wrote:

And, apparently, all fighter types have egos at least ten orders
of magnitude greater than either their abilities or their egos.

Al Minyard


My ego is not bigger than my ego. It seems to hover around the same
size, no matter which angle I view it from. As for my abilities, my
ego is unrelated.

Show me a humble fighter pilot and I'll show you a loser.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #22  
Old June 11th 04, 04:58 PM
Ed Rasimus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:28:48 -0500, Alan Minyard
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:09:59 -0600, Ed Rasimus wrote:


I used to tell the new guys in my squadron that they flew fighters.
They would be a "Fighter Pilot" when someone else told them they were.
Until then, they were authorized to say they "fly fighters."


With all due respect, fighter pilots are no more special than any other
Serviceman. The OOD of a nuclear submarine has far more responsibility
than some guy flying around. Being a "fighter pilot" is no more (or less)
deserving of respect than a grunt Company Commander, a tanker pilot.
or a Surface Warfare OOD.

The self appointed "gods" that fighter types make of themselves only
serves to demean all Servicemen, including themselves.


Gimme a break. Taking pride in your training and specialization in no
way demeans someone else. Pride is not a zero-sum game.

You might also want to quickly review the distinction between
"authority" and "responsibility". If as I assume, OOD means Officer of
the Deck, then he/she only has authority to act on behalf of the
ship's Captain who bears the responsibility.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #23  
Old June 11th 04, 05:04 PM
Ed Rasimus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:30:22 GMT, Jack wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Well, you do know of course, that Fighter Pilots are indeed "the
chosen few." How could it be otherwise?



I have mucho respect for former Thud drivers, as well as Jollys and Sandys. But,
I often wonder why it is that the Thud drivers are the ones who insist on their
own superiority in such an annoying manner? They aren't the only military units
that have been misused and abused, that's for sure. They just seem to whine
about it longer and louder (even worse than those F-4 blowhards).


I appreciate your respect. I also note, for the record, that I have
four times as much F-4 time (C, D & E) as I do F-105 time and almost
twice as much F-4 combat time as F-105 combat.

I don't insist on my own superiority at all. I simply have a strong,
positive self-image.

You might want to check When Thunder Rolled out at your local library
to read about the development of that self-image.

If it's true, as I suspect, that a higher percentage of 105 pukes shot down
(than Sandys or Jollys) survived to become POWs, that could be perceived as an
advantage, though perhaps not more highly deserved.


Exposure to threat leads to losses. More exposure, more losses. It
doesn't equate with better or lesser capability or skill.

As always, Sandys and Jollys drink for free around here. Those whose airplanes
are propelled by many very small enclosed rotating blades, without the use of a
few very large ones, should bring cash.


Sandys and Jollys drink for free here as well. Proud to buy top shelf
for them any time. Just put away that damn stencil and green spray
can.



Jack
(SEA FAC)


Ed, peace-time FAC/ALO, 2d Bde, 4th ID(Mech).


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #24  
Old June 11th 04, 05:21 PM
OXMORON1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Al wrote:
And, apparently, all fighter types have egos at least ten orders
of magnitude greater than either their abilities or their egos.


Ever meet a SAC StanEval Flight Examiner, Light Bird or Full Bull, from the
"olden" days?

or

An Airborne 2LT just out of jump school

or

A Rookie Highway Patrol Trooper

or

A very good "Lady of the Evening"

Just an EGO thing.

While I liked to crew with pilots who had "A silent air of confidence". An ego
was better than a WIMP if there was no option.

Oxmoron1
MFE
  #25  
Old June 11th 04, 09:08 PM
Steve Hix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Alan Minyard wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:09:59 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On 09 Jun 2004 15:41:45 GMT, (OXMORON1) wrote:

Ed wrote:
Reread the last sentence of my post slowly. Savor the nuance. You met
a few pilots assigned to fly fighters.

But Ed, they all claimed to be "fighter pilots". That is the trouble,
"everyone
wants to be a fighter pilot" not all who make the claim are fighter pilots.
Thus my claim that some "fighter pilots" are "pukes".
You have to watch your step in a stag bar with a bunch of people who "look"
like "fighter pilots" Hell there might even be a WSO in the crowd!

Oxmoron1


The WSO might even be a "Fighter-gator" or, worse yet, a "Bear".

I used to tell the new guys in my squadron that they flew fighters.
They would be a "Fighter Pilot" when someone else told them they were.
Until then, they were authorized to say they "fly fighters."

You can always tell a fighter pilot....but you can't tell him much.

Cheers, and check six.

With all due respect, fighter pilots are no more special than any other
Serviceman. The OOD of a nuclear submarine has far more responsibility
than some guy flying around. Being a "fighter pilot" is no more (or less)
deserving of respect than a grunt Company Commander, a tanker pilot.
or a Surface Warfare OOD.

The self appointed "gods" that fighter types make of themselves only
serves to demean all Servicemen, including themselves.


Did you miss you last humor booster, Al?
  #26  
Old June 12th 04, 05:00 AM
Jim Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ed:

Thanks for clearing all that up.

I don't understand "BTW, you still trying to scrub those green
footprints off your back-side?"

Jim Thomas

Ed Rasimus wrote in message news
Were recce pilots who flew "alone and unarmed" into North Vietnam in
RF-101s, and became the first POWs, pukes? Or their later RF-4
brothers?


Well, other than the hyperbole regarding "became the first POWs", you
make a point. Ev Alvarez and the guys who were early internees were
mostly tactical fighter types. We don't want to get into Kramerism
here regarding combat versus non-combat folks who through no fault of
their own had less than a total "opportunity to excel".

Were "Trash Haulers" who landed their C-130s and C-123s into places
like Khe Son pukes?


I like to reserve the appellation for guys who wouldn't give a buddy a
hop in their dead-head flight back to Naha, because the residual fuel
in the tank of the motor-bike they bought constituted "hazardous
cargo", hence no pax. Or the transport crews who scheduled their
in-theater rotations over the end of the month to get two months
credit for "combat pay" and tax exclusion.

Were the Misty Facs pukes?


I correspond regularly with Don Sheppard. As you know, the Mistys
included guys like Bud Day. They are Fighter Pilots.

Were B-52 pilots who flew their Buffs over Hanoi during Linebacker
pukes?


Lots of BUFF-Rats show up at Reunions each year. Highly regarded,
especially by the ex-cons who had a front line seat for the show.

Were the Jolly Greens pukes? Or the Sandys that covered for them?


By now, you're getting tedious. You know of course that the
Recce-puke, trash-puke, etc. are all terms of endearment. Hang around
a club stag bar for whatever type and you'll hear the other types
called "xxxx-pukes."

BTW, you still trying to scrub those green footprints off your
back-side?

Or are the only "pukes" those "fighter pilots" who need to feel that
they are the chosen few.


Well, you do know of course, that Fighter Pilots are indeed "the
chosen few." How could it be otherwise?

  #28  
Old June 13th 04, 01:33 AM
Jim Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ed Rasimus wrote in message news:

You said you were a Sandy and spent a lot of time around JG folks. If
you were in a stag bar with JG guys you should have had the
opportunity to either participate in or become the victim of their
custom of spray-painting Jolly Green Giant footprints on the naked
posterior of those who visited their lair.



To tell you the truth, I never heard of this being done at Udorn
(1967). Must have started after the Jollys and Sandies moved to Nakhom
Phanom.

Jim Thomas
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) Rich Stowell Aerobatics 28 January 2nd 09 03:26 PM
Boeing Boondoggle Larry Dighera Military Aviation 77 September 15th 04 02:39 AM
us air force us air force academy us air force bases air force museum us us air force rank us air force reserve adfunk Jehad Internet Military Aviation 0 February 7th 04 05:24 AM
[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots? No Spam! Military Aviation 120 January 27th 04 11:19 AM
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools RT Military Aviation 104 September 25th 03 03:17 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.