Black Boxes for GA Aircraft...Good or Bad?

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


'BLACK BOXES' SOON AVAILABLE FOR CIRRUS AIRPLANES
A Massachusetts manufacturer, which was developing an engine trend
monitoring device for an air taxi operator now using Cirrus Design
aircraft, has expanded the product to a $5,000 flight data recorder or
"black box" for the Cirrus SR20 and SR22 models. The device, made by
Alakai Technologies of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, can help owners by
providing easily downloadable engine performance data, but will also
aid insurance company investigations of fault in aircraft accidents. It
could save up to $1,000 a year in owner insurance, a company official
estimated. The 3.5-pound device should receive a supplemental type
certificate from the FAA as early as December. The air taxi operator
will become the launch customer for the always-on Digital Flight Data
System. It can record information such as engine performance, rate of
climb or descent, true and indicated airspeed, heading, altitude,
engine trends, miles per gallon, and GPS navigation waypoints. There
have been initial discussions between Alakai and Cirrus Design about
the device. It will be manufactured for Alakai by another Massachusetts
company, Accent Technologies, located in North Andover.

Greengears,

Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


Very bad, to answer your title. One more certified thing to pay for,
with no or little increase in safety (how many GA accidents are there
with unknown cause that have a chance of being clearer with such a
gadget?). The only purpose of such a device is to give the media a
chance to report more in the Lidle case. Sad!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Greengears,

Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


Very bad, to answer your title. One more certified thing to pay for,
with no or little increase in safety (how many GA accidents are there
with unknown cause that have a chance of being clearer with such a
gadget?). The only purpose of such a device is to give the media a
chance to report more in the Lidle case. Sad!

But most of us already do have black boxes. My GPS tracks my
course/speed/altitude/etc for about a year back. My EDM tracks all my
engine trends, all EGTs, fuel flows, CHTs, event OAT (in case I was in
an ice accident).
It wouldn't be hard for the NTSB to get as much info from my plane as
the 80's era black boxes provided.

-Robert

I have no need for one. $5000 for something that adds nothing to
safety and will not prevent the main cause of plane crashes...pilot
error.

Ron Lee

On 27 Oct 2006 08:08:48 -0700, "Greengears"
wrote:

Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


... It
could save up to $1,000 a year in owner insurance, a company official
estimated. ...

Savings of up to $1,000/yr in insurance? Holy cow! How much does it
cost to insure one of those things otherwise?

Does that mean that if I put one on my Warrior that I could insure for
free?

RK Henry

Does that mean that if I put one on my Warrior that I could insure for
free?

"Save up to $1000, or more!"

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:28:41 +0000, RK Henry wrote:

Savings of up to $1,000/yr in insurance?

Why? What use has the insurance company for this information, and how
does it reduce your risk enough to make that type of difference?

Either the companies want some data and are willing to pay for it, or this
is a tool to disallow coverage (or whatever the phrase is) given
information the insurance company would otherwise lack.

I'd not begrudge the companies accident data (esp. if they share with the
likes of ASF), but I'd not even consider installing such a thing w/o
written agreement that nothing in that box can be used to render insurance
void (or whatever the phrase is).

- Andrew

"Greengears" wrote in message
ups.com...
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?



Consider the fact that without one, if you have an accident, you are pretty
much at the mercy of an "expert" who, potentially, couldn't find his butt
with both hands and a flashlight (at least that was the "accident
reconstructionist" from the state police that I had the misfortune of
dealing with)...

I wish cars had these.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Greengears,


Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?


Very bad, to answer your title. One more certified thing to pay for,
with no or little increase in safety (how many GA accidents are there
with unknown cause that have a chance of being clearer with such a
gadget?). The only purpose of such a device is to give the media a
chance to report more in the Lidle case. Sad!


But most of us already do have black boxes. My GPS tracks my
course/speed/altitude/etc for about a year back. My EDM tracks all my
engine trends, all EGTs, fuel flows, CHTs, event OAT (in case I was in
an ice accident).
It wouldn't be hard for the NTSB to get as much info from my plane as
the 80's era black boxes provided.

That assumes it survives the wreck.

Matt

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:yvidnbruEJwv59_YnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Greengears" wrote in message
ups.com...
Got this article in an AOPA email about black boxes being installed in
the Cirrus SR20 and SR22. Do you think that all flight schools should
have these type of black boxes installed in their aircrafts?



Consider the fact that without one, if you have an accident, you are
pretty much at the mercy of an "expert" who, potentially, couldn't find
his butt with both hands and a flashlight (at least that was the "accident
reconstructionist" from the state police that I had the misfortune of
dealing with)...

I wish cars had these.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.


Most cars built today do have a black box....the engine control unit.
Records speed, temp, engine RPM, MAP, transmission gear, and may include
airbag state, brake application and other sensors depending on make and
model. Post crash, the data can be used for or against you.
Regards,
John Severyn
@KLVK