Cockpit video recording -- the time is now.

This is going off the original topic but actually Dan I'm not sure that
'the government' anywhere here in Europe (still in at the moment,UK)
has mandated Flarm. It's mandated in France certainly but I'm fairly
sure it was the FFVV, the gliding community that mandated it after an
accident in which I believe 3 but possibly even 4 people lost their lives.

The risks may be different in that in parts of France ie The Alps, on a
busy day you can have several hundred gliders in a relatively small
area.

At 15:50 03 October 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
That hardly requires an answer, Mike.Â* I had seat belts in my car long
before they were mandated; it was my choice, not the government's,
and
I'd still have them without the mandate. Likewise, I've flown legacy
aircraft which didn't have shoulder straps without wetting my pants
over
the hazards.

For the last time:Â* Choose what works for you and let me choose for
myself.Â* Try to force me and we'll have a problem.

On 10/3/2018 8:50 AM, Mike Oliver wrote:
What about straps Dan? I believe they are mandated. Should that
be
removed

"All good and well to have 1Hz logging and a buffer or whatever, but most (all?) loggers keep this in volatile memory/RAM and only periodically flush to non-volatile storage, so just about no crash ever gets recorded. It's a tricky problem as volatile storage has write limits that would (possibly) be hit too early in their life if every fix was written out. "

The Oudie is self contained and has a buffer in non volatile memory. Naviter has retrieved this data from Oudies that have been in an accident.

I too am against any mandated surveillance. We can help by voluntarily recording flight info. If we survive a flight (ugh, better choice of words?) we can maintain privacy by erasing the recording(s), if unlucky, they may solve the cause and save lives.

The problem is that recorders we can readily use will likely not produce a recording that will survive an accident. We need data storage that will endure extreme Gs including shock, smashing against rocks after plummeting, becoming wet for a long time, and scorching in a hot fire. Would creating a glider black box lead to usage mandates?

Yes, please log GPS 1/second or faster if possible.

I don't use PowerFlarm because almost all of my close calls were with powered civilian an military aircraft, and would have done no good. We need a truly universal solution.

Wit, HZ.

Just to be clear, the FFVV (now FFVP) never mandated anything. It is asked for any pilot to be responsible and use Flarm to be visible to other pilots when flying the Alps. It is therefore common practice to use this tool and nobody in a sane condition would fly there without it. Like having anti-collision decals on your glider to be more visible against a snow cap for instance. You won't be fined if you don't have it, you would just be a complete jerk.

When you are flying the Parcours with probably several dozens of gliders in the vicinity, it is a VERY useful tool to avoid crashing into one another and look for potential collision hazards in the right direction. It would require superhuman capabilities to do this without this tool.
Now, it doesn't stop people from being complete a-holes and charge against other gliders just to get in a thermal or avoid deviating from their 'best energy' routes. Not everybody is a gentleman.

Flying is a privilege that should be preserved, the safer it gets, the more enjoyable it will be. Cameras, Flarms, ADS-B, etc... it's up to every pilot to be responsible in which tool they use to make themselves (and thus the others) safe.

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 8:16:08 PM UTC+2, Magnetar wrote:
Just to be clear, the FFVV (now FFVP) never mandated anything. It is asked for any pilot to be responsible and use Flarm to be visible to other pilots when flying the Alps. It is therefore common practice to use this tool and nobody in a sane condition would fly there without it. Like having anti-collision decals on your glider to be more visible against a snow cap for instance. You won't be fined if you don't have it, you would just be a complete jerk.

When you are flying the Parcours with probably several dozens of gliders in the vicinity, it is a VERY useful tool to avoid crashing into one another and look for potential collision hazards in the right direction. It would require superhuman capabilities to do this without this tool.
Now, it doesn't stop people from being complete a-holes and charge against other gliders just to get in a thermal or avoid deviating from their 'best energy' routes. Not everybody is a gentleman.

Flying is a privilege that should be preserved, the safer it gets, the more enjoyable it will be. Cameras, Flarms, ADS-B, etc... it's up to every pilot to be responsible in which tool they use to make themselves (and thus the others) safe.

Huh? Everywhere I've read suggests it is in fact mandatory in France - i.e. https://flarm.com/flarm-mandatory-in-france/
I don't speak enough French to verify this via the FFVP website.

Should have checked before saying something.. you're absolutely right, indeed FFVP mandated the Flarm but FFVP does not operate the airspace so I would guess that in theory you could fly without it there, which would be consistent with the multiple foreign pilots who go there without it.

I guess basically you wouldn't be able to take-off from an airfield operated by a FFVP affiliated club but you could fly there without this device. Like some power airplanes transiting in the area.

Information we lack with GPS recorders and most video includes control input. We need to know if the pilot was reckless, unknowingly operating the controls in a fatal manner, or doing his best to counter an adverse external input. The details may reveal the cause.

I have mounted cameras behind me only to get 90% of the frame showing wide shoulders, fat neck, and a huge hat. The stick was completely obscured and rudder pedals too far away in a dark corner. I wonder if a tail mounted camera would not be more useful, as it would show positions of aileron and flap, and attitude. Maybe a mirror could also show the rudder. If rigidly mounted, a tail camera could also reveal structural bending of the tail boom and wings in a measurable way.

Wit, HZ.

'................you could fly without it there, which would be consi=
stent with the multiple foreign pilots who go there without it.'


Well I'd be interested in your source for this assertion. Just checked
the website for the one glider field I know which is not affiliated to
FFVP and it clearly states you must have an operable FLARM and it
must be working with the most recent software.







At 18:32 03 October 2018, Magnetar wrote:
Should have checked before saying something.. you're absolutely
right,
inde=
ed FFVP mandated the Flarm but FFVP does not operate the
airspace so I
woul=
d guess that in theory you could fly without it there, which would
be
consi=
stent with the multiple foreign pilots who go there without it.

I guess basically you wouldn't be able to take-off from an airfield
operate=
d by a FFVP affiliated club but you could fly there without this
device.
Li=
ke some power airplanes transiting in the area.

Steve:
If you are going to do it (and you know I have my doubts) - a starting point might be to get the commercial ride operators to install video cameras and charge the customers extra for the video as a souvenir. I think may some do it already. Considering the number of recent unexplained tourist ride crashes, that might be a good start at a specific problem area and something that the commercial ride operators would want to do.
ROY

There is NO legal requirement for Flarm un France. Full stop.

Bert TW
who has flown about 2000h with Flarm un France