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ADSB panel display
I can certainly read the specs off a website and wave my willy with a lot of talk of what products are currently on the market. At 09:18 12 October 2018, Darryl Ramm wrote: Oh we need stuff to "work together" and have "low power consumption". No sh= it batman. You just worked this out? I don't get the impression you have mu= ch of an idea of the technology here, but please do go explain to uAvionix = and others what they should be doing for the glider market... On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 1:45:03 AM UTC-7, Alastair Lyas wrote: If you fly anywhere near other gliders then a simple proximity alarm=20 is going to get pretty annoying and be pretty useless. If you fly near=20 GA then ADSB is going to become essential. This is true of the US,=20 the UK, and probably EU. If you fly in a glider with finite battery=20 then an ADSB transceiver makes a whole lot more sense than a=20 transponder. =20 Regulation will need to catch-up, and the product set needs to=20 evolve. Flarm and UAVionix are working together. What they need is=20 to hear from gliderpilots about what solutions will work for us.=20 Otherwise all they will design for is GA.=20 =20 My view is we want a combined Powerflarm / ADSB OEM module=20 that can slot into the native gliding navigation systems. With=20 software configurability to deal with the regional legalities of doing=20 this in the short term. =20 =20 At 23:52 11 October 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 2:47:12 PM UTC-7, Darryl=20 Ramm wrote: On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 2:30:05 AM UTC-7, Alastair=20 Lyas wrote: Might be worth waiting for products combining both ADSB=20 and=3D20 Flarm? =3D20 The uAvionix SkyEcho 2 is innovative in ways, but to me it has=20 lots of li=3D mitations and is just not that interesting for the USA glider market=20 at lea=3D st, which is why I've not mentioned it before on r.a.s. But here=20 goes... =3D20 I always expect there is interesting stuff coming, but folks do=20 need to =3D be a little careful what they might decide to wait for. Well over a=20 decade =3D ago some folks in the Minden area were waiting for mythical UAT=20 devices tha=3D t never happened, lots of handwaving not grounded in reality, and=20 in some c=3D ases owners unfortunately were putting off transponder adoption=20 because of =3D that. Let's not repeat anything like that again. And for the SkyEcho=20 2 we d=3D on't need to wait to actually look at what this device does or does=20 not do =3D since documentation has been available for a while. And much of=20 my comments=3D below come from just reading that documentation... but OK, with=20 a pretty g=3D ood understanding of the underlying technology. =3D20 The SkyEcho 2 does not include a FLARM transceiver, so in the=20 USA today y=3D ou would be adding a PowerFLARM to it via the FLARMBridge=20 option to get FLA=3D RM capability. That immediately makes it uninteresting to lots of=20 glider ow=3D ners. According to the documentation the combined devices do=20 *not* take ADS=3D -B traffic and output that on a FLARM serial protocol link so the=20 usual tra=3D ffic displays used in a glider can see them... it seems to only works=20 the o=3D ther way and takes FLARM traffic and adds it to what is being sent=20 over GLD=3D -90 protocol to GA EFBs etc. The reverse of what most glider pilots=20 want in=3D a cockpit (and what PowerFLARM does today for 1090ES Direct=20 traffic). And =3D I'll bet it converts PowerFLARMs more useful traffic warnings say=20 when ther=3D malling with other gliders into ADS-B warnings going off all the=20 time nons=3D ense. And given how the FLARM ICD (serial protocol) and GLD- 90=20 works I doub=3D t there is any sane way not to have to do that. But OK, it is what it=20 is, a=3D nd very clearly this product is *not* aimed at gliders. =3D20 I'm not sure uAvionix have promised USA FCC approval for that=20 device yet.=3D I expect they are likely to. It's not FCC approved today so can't=20 even be =3D advertised in the USA... which may well be why there is nothing=20 mentioned o=3D n their USA website or why they don't want to irritate the FCC by=20 even talk=3D ing about it. Having been to the FCC approval mosh pit (I was=20 going to cal=3D l it a dance :-)) several times before uAvionix should know very=20 well what=3D they are doing with FCC approval. =3D20 Their launch for the product was very UK centric, which was=20 pretty intere=3D sting given how far behind overall ADS-B adoption is in Europe vs.=20 the USA,=3D they seem to be hoping to move that needle, ride on UK interest=20 in TABS an=3D d FIS-B trials and combining some FLARM capability. So quite a=20 intersting k=3D itchen sink of a product for those uses and very interesting that=20 uAvionix =3D are so growth oriented they are lookin at trying to seed that=20 market. =3D20 So then you want to ask if you need an actual PowerFLARM=20 device to conne=3D ct to the SkyEcho 2 to do FLARM then what else does the SkyEcho=20 2=20 provide,=3D and importantly is it a replacement for a transponder? =3D20 Importantly the SkyEcho 2 *not* a full transponder but does=20 implement TAB=3D S/TSO-C199 so should provide compatibility with TCAS which is=20 obviously imp=3D ortant. I'd love to see one working. ATC will likely not see that=20 device ho=3D wever and that's going to be an issue in many places near busy=20 ATC areas.=20 =3D ATC *does* sees Trig transponders running as TABS devices, as=20 they are full=3D transponders underneath the TABS 1090ES Out part. The ATC=20 visibility part =3D is a large concern for me, especially around places like the Minden=20 area wh=3D ich this thread started with. Without ATC visibility I would not=20 recommend =3D that device for use in that area. I'd love to eventually get my=20 hands on on=3D e to confirm and to talk about it with the friendly NOCAL TRACON=20 tech folks=3D who cover the Reno area. =3D20 You also can't install this (or any other TABS) device in an=20 aircraft wit=3D h an existing Mode C or Mode S transponder.... so can't get=20 visibility to A=3D TC that way. I can't imagine any glider owner with a transponder=20 in their g=3D lider who would want to pull it out and replace it with a SkyEcho 2=20 if tha=3D t meant losing visibility to ATC... a large part of why they installed= =20 the =3D transponder to start with. =3D20 The SkyEcho 2 also won't meet FAA 2020 ADS-B Out=20 requirements, and althou=3D gh gliders are partially exempt, we still have folks who want to say overfl=3D y Class C airspace (but below 10,000'). =3D20 It's a little confusing in some many ways the SkyEcho seems=20 more targeted=3D at UAVs (or maybe ultralights) but things like UAT In/FIS-B is=20 more a GA f=3D eature, so it sure is an intersting product to follow for geeks like=20 me,=20 b=3D ut kind of wedged into a space between others products, especially=20 with ful=3D l Mode S/1090ES Out transponders on one side. We'll see.... =3D20 Other products with combined ADS-B and FLARM capabilities... =3D20 PowerFLARM today does 1090ES In (Direct only, no ADS-R and=20 TIS-B) and FLA=3D RM. (effectively all PowerFLARM sold in the USA have the 1090ES=20 In option).=3D =3D20 =3D20 LXNav PowerMouse is coming, apparently undergoing FCC=20 approval, with its=3D ADS-B In option it does 1090ES In (but unlike PowerFLARM it=20 *does* ADS-R =3D and hopefully TIS-B) and FLARM. (hopefully LXNav will be smart=20 here and the=3D PowerMouse sold in the USA will all have 1090ES In option). =3D20 Other vendors like AirAvionic have new FLARM products with=20 1090ES In capa=3D bilities coming, I wish they would start describing those product=20 specs and=3D capabilities more clearly and ideally clarifying their plans for the=20 USA m=3D arket. (their ATD57 display is still great however if anybody wants=20 a dedic=3D ated FLARM display). =3D20 --- =3D20 Alastair I assume you are in the UK? or elsewhere in Europe. I'm=20 you not =3D sure why you care about FLARM and the USA with a LXNav 9070,=20 but if you re=3D ally want to operate in the USA hopefully you have a standard=20 PowerFLARM ex=3D ternal box (i.e. a model with FCC approval) connected to the 9070. You are a stud! J |
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