'Notamed closed' question

OK, Here is a question for some of you FAR legal experts out there. I can't
seem to find anything definitive on it. If an uncontrolled airport is open to
those based there but notamed 'closed to transients' do the runways have to be
"X"ed?
If not what about a passer-by who didn't intend it to be part of his flight
plan but decides to land, say for a drink of water etc., or just to rest up?
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

Jim

"JFLEISC" wrote in message ...
OK, Here is a question for some of you FAR legal experts out there. I can't
seem to find anything definitive on it. If an uncontrolled airport is open to
those based there but notamed 'closed to transients' do the runways have to be
"X"ed?

No of course not.

If not what about a passer-by who didn't intend it to be part of his flight
plan but decides to land, say for a drink of water etc., or just to rest up?
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

By and large it's not the FAA who knows or cares if airports are closed to
certain operations. It's the person who owns/runs the airport that does.
It's not a FAR violation (unless there was some safety issue like there
were people working on the runway, etc...) to land at a closed airport.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

By and large it's not the FAA who knows or cares if airports are closed to
certain operations. It's the person who owns/runs the airport that does.
It's not a FAR violation (unless there was some safety issue like there
were people working on the runway, etc...) to land at a closed airport.

Well, technically it is a violation. If the FAA choses to be picky
about it, they can ding you for not having obtained all of the
information for your flight (which includes NOTAMs).

I know a pilot that landed at an airport that was temporarily
NOTAMed closed. He had to take a ride with an inspector (709???).

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote in message om...

Well, technically it is a violation. If the FAA choses to be picky
about it, they can ding you for not having obtained all of the
information for your flight (which includes NOTAMs).

Not all closures are NOTAM'd.
Just because a field is NOTAM'd or otherwise marked as closed makes
it illegal by the FAR's to land there.

I know a pilot that landed at an airport that was temporarily
NOTAMed closed. He had to take a ride with an inspector (709???).

What was the nature of the closure? What was the issue? Unless the landing
was unsafe or there was some specific FAA activity (TFR), it's not against the
FARs to land at closed airports. It's certainly not against the FARs to invoke
the ire of airport operators by breaking their self-imposed rules.

---

My favorite enforcement actions along these lines was the guy about a decade ago
who got the NOTAM that CGS was closed until 4PM. At 4:01 the guy heads out
and departs narrowly missing hitting the guy picking up the big X off the end of the
runway.

The moral is: No matter what the NOTAM says, the airport ain't open until the guy
removing the X gets off the runway.

Ron Natalie wrote:
My favorite enforcement actions along these lines was the guy about a decade ago
who got the NOTAM that CGS was closed until 4PM. At 4:01 the guy heads out
and departs narrowly missing hitting the guy picking up the big X off the end of the
runway.
The moral is: No matter what the NOTAM says, the airport ain't open until the guy
removing the X gets off the runway.

That wasn't quite the correct story... I was practically at CGS
constantantly during that time (although, I wasn't there that day). The
time period was approximately when they were building the raised Metro
tracks at the departure end of 33. The person who took off supposedly
made the Metro construction workers "dive out of the way". I don't think
it had anything to do with the "X". If I remember right, there was
testimony to that effect during the enforcement hearing.

In addition, since CGS has a rule against departures after 10PM, and
before 7AM, there were always the occasional story of someone sneaking
out at 10:05, or 6:55. That's a local rule, made to smooth over the
relationship with the surrounding communities, and (of course) doesn't
involve any "X" on the runways. I don't think there are any enforcement
actions taken against those people.

-- Jay
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

"John Galban" wrote in message om...

Obviously, my friend had not obtained NOTAMs, because he landed at an
airport that was NOTAMed closed.

So what if he knew the airport was closed (complied with the regulations)
and decided to go shoot touch and goes there anyhow?

Dana M. Hague d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in message . ..
On 22 Jul 2003 08:30:07 -0700, (John Galban)
wrote:

A "friendly" FAA type greeted us and took
our licenses. We sweated through the show (her mother more than me as
obviously her job was on the line), but after the show he gave us our
licenses back, chewed us out, and sent us on our way. Somehow I doubt
it'd go that way today....

The FAA type is not allowed to take your license (certificate for
you sticklers). He is allowed to inspect it, period. I would never
allow an FAA person to take my cert. If they keep it, they could
easily say you surrendered it, thereby making their job a lot easier.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:
Dana M. Hague d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in message . ..

On 22 Jul 2003 08:30:07 -0700, (John Galban)
wrote:

A "friendly" FAA type greeted us and took
our licenses. We sweated through the show (her mother more than me as
obviously her job was on the line), but after the show he gave us our
licenses back, chewed us out, and sent us on our way. Somehow I doubt
it'd go that way today....


The FAA type is not allowed to take your license (certificate for
you sticklers). He is allowed to inspect it, period. I would never
allow an FAA person to take my cert. If they keep it, they could
easily say you surrendered it, thereby making their job a lot easier.

And even if he did take it then go fly anyways. Right in front of him.
It is such a huge no no for a FSDO inspector to confiscate a
certificate that my local FSDO inspector doesn't believe it would ever
happen. He told me that if any FSDO inspector took your license just go
fly anyways. Make a big deal about it. He said the end result will be
a phone call from the local FSDO manager apologizing profusely.

Ron Natalie wrote:

"John Galban" wrote in message om...

. If they keep it, they could
easily say you surrendered it, thereby making their job a lot easier.


You can no longer (and haven't been able to in a long time) surrender your
pilot certificate without making a written declaration to that effect.

However, if some bonehead inspector takes it, you're kind of screwed anyhow
until you can get someone in authority to correct his stupidity.

No, you're not.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
"John Galban" wrote in message om...

Obviously, my friend had not obtained NOTAMs, because he landed at an
airport that was NOTAMed closed.

So what if he knew the airport was closed (complied with the regulations)
and decided to go shoot touch and goes there anyhow?

Then I imagine he would have got off scott-free. But the fact
remains that he did not know the airport was closed and the FAA knew
that because there was no record of an FSS or DUATS briefing.

I understand what you're getting at and have agreed with the fact
that it's not illegal to land at an airport that has been NOTAMed
closed. My point was more along the lines of what happens if you land
at a closed airport that you didn't know was closed by NOTAM. The
absence of X's doesn't mean you're out of the woods.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)