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ASW-19 Maximum Weight



 
 
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  #31  
Old October 19th 18, 04:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 718
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 10:31:45 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
What about the weight of the horizontal stabilizer?Â* Given that it
produces negative lift and contributes to the bending loads on the main
spar, is it considered a lifting part or part of the non lifting components?

On 10/19/2018 5:52 AM, Jonathan Walker wrote:
At 01:37 19 October 2018, Ouroboros wrote:
That TN doesn't increase the max weight without water, which is the
limiting number for this particular glider and the number that is not in
the manual.

Unless I am missing something all you need to know is the particular
gliders actual (not assumed manufactured) weight of the non-lifting parts.

The max pilot (actually payload, pilot / parachute / ballast weights /
onboard snacks etc) weight is then the lower of:

a) Weight of the actual non-lifting parts subtract from the manuals max
non-lifting parts weight of 230kg (507lbs).
Or
b) 115kg (253.4lbs) which the manuals max pilot weight.
Or
c) The max all up weight less the empty weight (very unlikely to come into
play)

This all assumes that the empty CofG limit is inside the manual
limitations.

The max weight without water is not relevant and most new aircraft don't
list it. You know the max non-lifting parts weight (the critical point due
to bending loads), and the max all up weight inc water
(undercarriage/structural and flight stress loads), then the difference has
to be all in the wings. The aircraft doesn't know if the wings weight is
structure or water so is happy to fly!



--
Dan, 5J


"Max weight of non lifting components (everything except wings)" - from BGA TCDS. Flight manual is silent on what it is.

From https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-con...312108_4-1.pdf , "AMP4-1/Nov 05
BGA AMP Part 4, Leaflet 4-1, Page 1
BGA AIRWORTHINESS AND MAINTENANCE PROCEDURES
PART 4, LEAFLET 4-1
GLIDER WEIGHT AND BALANCE",

"on-Lifting Parts:
"For sailplanes where the Leading Particulars specify a maximum weight
of non-lifting parts, it will additionally be necessary to weigh the wings to enable the weight of the fuselage and tailplane to be calculated; this is the empty weight of non-lifting parts. "

CS-22 doesn't appear to talk about it.
  #32  
Old October 19th 18, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ouroboros
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Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Jonathan: I agree that the max weight without water shouldn't be relevant, but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced. The last two people to do weight and balance for this glider both used the number from the TCDS.

805-609=196 lbs max pilot weight.

How do I convince someone to ignore the number in the TCDS?
  #33  
Old October 19th 18, 07:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan Walker
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Posts: 10
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

At 17:19 19 October 2018, Ouroboros wrote:
Jonathan: I agree that the max weight without water shouldn't be

relevant,
but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced. The last two people to do
weight and balance for this glider both used the number from the TCDS.

805-609=196 lbs max pilot weight.

How do I convince someone to ignore the number in the TCDS?


You need to do the sums and see what the max pilot weight comes out at
first. ie. the max non lifting part less the current non lifting parts. It
may be that comes to 196lbs or have you already done those numbers? Without
this you cannot move forward. It could even be that the max pilot weight is
less than 196lbs!!!!

If the previous paperwork doesn't have the current weight of the non
lifting parts then there would be a suspicion that the calculations haven't
been done correctly. Not uncommon.....

  #34  
Old October 19th 18, 07:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

A simple weighing should put this all to rest.Â* Two bathroom scales
should get you very close if you don't have access to proper aircraft
scales.

1.Â* Weigh each wing separately using two bathroom scales.
2.Â* Weigh the fuselage separately using two bathroom scales, one under
each end of the wing leading edge.
3.Â* Weigh the horizontal tail separately using one bathroom scale.

The total of the above three is the total empty weight.

With a little juggling of the numbers and a few arithmetic steps you
should easily get your answers.

On 10/19/2018 12:19 PM, Jonathan Walker wrote:
At 17:19 19 October 2018, Ouroboros wrote:
Jonathan: I agree that the max weight without water shouldn't be

relevant,
but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced. The last two people to do
weight and balance for this glider both used the number from the TCDS.

805-609=196 lbs max pilot weight.

How do I convince someone to ignore the number in the TCDS?

You need to do the sums and see what the max pilot weight comes out at
first. ie. the max non lifting part less the current non lifting parts. It
may be that comes to 196lbs or have you already done those numbers? Without
this you cannot move forward. It could even be that the max pilot weight is
less than 196lbs!!!!

If the previous paperwork doesn't have the current weight of the non
lifting parts then there would be a suspicion that the calculations haven't
been done correctly. Not uncommon.....


--
Dan, 5J
  #35  
Old October 19th 18, 08:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 1:19:37 PM UTC-4, Ouroboros wrote:
Jonathan: I agree that the max weight without water shouldn't be relevant, but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced. The last two people to do weight and balance for this glider both used the number from the TCDS.

805-609=196 lbs max pilot weight.

How do I convince someone to ignore the number in the TCDS?


I would start by explaining that the flight manual provided by the builder is the controlling document.
If in doubt, ask Schleicher.
Then I would weigh all the parts and do the sums.
UH
  #36  
Old October 19th 18, 09:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 718
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A simple weighing should put this all to rest.Â* Two bathroom scales
should get you very close if you don't have access to proper aircraft
scales.

1.Â* Weigh each wing separately using two bathroom scales.
2.Â* Weigh the fuselage separately using two bathroom scales, one under
each end of the wing leading edge.


Dan, 5J


I would weigh the fuselage using two scales, one under the main wheel, one under the tail wheel, not under the wing leading edge?
  #37  
Old October 20th 18, 12:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Yeah, I went back to put in the mention about leading edges and I put it
in the wrong sentence.Â* My purpose was that, due to the rest of the
content of this thread, I doubt some people understand the whole
concept.Â* Maybe draw a picture...

On 10/19/2018 2:53 PM, Dan Daly wrote:
On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 2:46:15 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A simple weighing should put this all to rest.Â* Two bathroom scales
should get you very close if you don't have access to proper aircraft
scales.

1.Â* Weigh each wing separately using two bathroom scales.
2.Â* Weigh the fuselage separately using two bathroom scales, one under
each end of the wing leading edge.
Dan, 5J

I would weigh the fuselage using two scales, one under the main wheel, one under the tail wheel, not under the wing leading edge?


--
Dan, 5J
  #38  
Old October 20th 18, 02:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ouroboros
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Posts: 13
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

My partner talked to Rex at Williams Soaring today. He told us that, for standard certificate gliders at least, the data in the TCDS takes precedent. So 805 pounds really is the maximum weight of the glider without water. Too bad, as that really limits the useful load of the 19s I've looked at.
  #39  
Old October 22nd 18, 01:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 109
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

My favorite donut shop is going to miss me. 😢😢😢
  #40  
Old October 22nd 18, 08:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 374
Default ASW-19 Maximum Weight

Why and by whom was that limit introduced? It isn't on the original LBA TCDS for the 19 or 19B as far as I can see from the versions on the BGA website.
 




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