Question about purchasing an airplane.

I just got my license (you can find the story of my Presidential TFR
checkride here if your are curious:
http://www.thepilotlounge.com/script...?showtopic=665 )

I am starting to seriously look into owning a plane now.

I can't imagine myself renting anymore since prices are not that good,
renting is inconvenient and clubs are a better deal but they all have
minimum hours restrictions ...

One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose that
I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway across
the country though.

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do I
need to be there?

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Thank you!

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

Marco Rispoli wrote:

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do I
need to be there?

What I would do is to make a post in the aviation owning and piloting groups asking
for references to a mechanic in that area. Then call that mechanic and the seller and
arrange a meeting. You should not need to be there. Another possibility is to locate
a broker in the area and hire him as an agent.

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

AOPA will provide some of these for a fee.

If anybody ever purchased a plane from
far away, how did you handle it?

I bought my 150 from a broker. I didn't get a title search. I financed the loan
through my credit union as a "signature loan". I went with AVEMCO for the first year
of insurance. I let the broker arrange the inspection. The transfer of ownership was
made when I went to pick up the plane, and I carried a certified check for payment.
If I had been buying from a private owner, I would have a title search performed and
arrange my own inspection.

I went to see the plane three times. Once to do my own inspection and see if I was
interested, once to fly the aircraft after the annual/preflight inspection, and once
for the ferry flight home. Most people would only need two visits.

Be aware that a 6% usage tax applies in New Jersey if you buy from a broker.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do I
need to be there?

You might want to consider have it professionally appraised first.
See http://www.plane-values.com/
For that you do not need to be present (at least I do not think so).
They do a careful look at the airplane and its logs and give you a
pretty complete report (except it is NOT and A&P pre-buy inspection).

This step can save you the expense of traveling out to see a plane that
is not what it claims to be.

Once done the appraiser can probably use his network to recommend a
nearby A&P to do the pre-buy (assuming you want to go ahead). I am sure
this is obvious, but you do not what to use any A&P that has touched the
airplane before; that person will be biased.

Some appraisers can also act as a buyers agent (for a fee) and can be
your surrogate up to a point. Personally, I would want to be there for
a pre-buy. Once satisfied with the pre-buy, you can then arrange to
begin the purchasing process right there.


There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

I suggest getting pre-approval for a loan up to whatever amount you can
qualify for. I suggest this as step one.

Once you have found what you think to be your plane. I would then get
it appraised.

At this point, you can call an insurer and at least get a quote for the
aircraft you are interested in. This could affect your buying decision.

If that looks good, then I think it is time to go see the plane and test
fly it. I suggest that you arrange to have an A&P meet you there to do
the pre-buy during your visit for the test flight (or the day after, in
case the test flight changes your mind). I would ask the A&P for a list
of everything he intends to look for in his pre-buy and have him produce
a written report. If there are options to look at more stuff, in
general, I would spend a few extra bucks to be really sure.

Once this is done, you are ready for the buying process. The title
search can be done in a day. So, I would wait until this point (others
may have different opinions) to do the title seach.


When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

I did, back in December. I live in Wisconsin. I bought a plane based
in Reno. I followed a similar process that I described above.

I should advise you that my purchase came with several problems. I had
to fix several problems that the A&P should have found on the pre-buy.
I also ended up having an in-flight engine faillure a few weeks ago.
The engine had not been flown very much over the last 10 years. I
should have paid closer attention to that warning sign. I also, in
retrospect, would have found a good A&P mechanic local to me (which I
have since done) and I would have flown him out with me. A local A&P
that you intend to maintain your plane has incentive to do right by you.
A local A&P on the field that you buy you plane has every incentive
not to "blow the deal" and so, in my view, is not your best choice.

I should also warn you that I am a relatively new buyer, so if a more
experienced, wiser owner chimes in, pay closer attention to that person.

Also, look back a few threads, there are several of them that are
relevant to your question.


Thank you!

Marco Rispoli wrote:
: I just got my license
snip

: One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose that
: I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
: conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway across
: the country though.

When I bought my Cherokee, I was in a similar position. I had looked at a few
airplanes, and then one of my friends mentioned that he had seen a "nice
Cherokee 180" on the AOPA classifieds. I took a look, and it looked good.
(I wasn't crazy about the paint scheme, though.) I am in Massachusetts, and
the plane was in Los Angeles. I called the owner less than an hour later,
we talked a little, and he said that he had scanned all the logbooks, and
would email them to me. I got a Purchase & Sale agreement, and sent him
a 3% deposit that day (nice Cherokee 180s sell in a day). I reviewed the
logs, discussed them with a couple A&P mechanic friends, and made an
appointment to see the plane.

I flew out to California. The plane was based at Van Nuys which is a huge
GA field. There are 10+ repair shops on the field, as well as numerous
places to rent aircraft. I asked the place that rented Piper airplanes
where they were serviced, visited that mechanic, and arranged for a
pre-purchase inspection. The next day, I met the owner. We went for a
short flight so that I could check out the avionics, etc., then I had the
pre-purchase inspection done. The mechanic found a few things, but nothing
serious. I flew another test flight (to Camarillo, good barbecue!).

When I got home, I arranged the financing (Dorr Aviation, just down the
street, good people). Dorr took care of a title search, and arranged escrow.
I "wired" my money to the escrow house, they "wired" it to the now ex-owner,
and faxed me a temporary registration. I went back to California to pick the
plane up.

I have to say that my experience was completely trouble free. The airplane
was exactly as advertised (the ad is still online, www.panicairlines.com/
n9376j/index.html). The seller was motivated (he had another airplane
already). The airplane had the equipment that I wanted. And, the paint
scheme looks far better in person that I could have ever thought.

--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

"Marco Rispoli" wrote in
. net:

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the
plane) mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the
plane? Do I need to be there?

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane
from far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Pretty common problem. You'll get lots of advise (some of it
conflicting, no doubt G).

You **will** want it inspected by a reliable mechanic, other than the
shop where it is normally maintained. You don't have to be present
(although I enjoy doing so). This mechanic could be someone near where
the plane is now located, or you can make a deal with the owner to fly
it somewhere else.

When I was looking for my last plane (I live in Texas) I flew out to San
Jose to look at one (boy, was THAT one not as represented). I flew to
Enid Oklahoma to look at another. It looked better, and I arranged to
fly it back to Austin (about 300 nm) to have my mechanic look it over.
I knew by the time I got to Austin that it wasn't going to pass
inspection - and it didn't. I flew it back to Enid, and paid the owner
a reasonable fee for "flight hours" (which wasn't necessary, but I felt
sorry for him).

Found another up in Illinois, and flew up there to take a look at it.
Nice plane, reasonable price. Test flew it -- still nice. Arranged to
have a competing shop on the field do the inspection while I went
through the logbooks with a fine tooth comb. Found a few discrepancies
(logs and plane), nothing major. Negotiated a change in price, plus the
owner to have the shop fix a couple of things. Flew home. Caught a
commercial flight a week later to pick up the plane and flew it home.

In my case, having a plane while shopping for another was a big help.
But with SW airlines tickets as cheap as they are, I really recommend
you at least LOOK at the plane before you buy it. For the price of the
plane, and the years you will have it, the ticket price is down in the
noise.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Aaron Coolidge wrote:

Dorr Aviation, just down the
street,

Are you in Marlborough?

Michael Nickolas wrote:
: Aaron Coolidge wrote:

:Dorr Aviation, just down the
:street,

: Are you in Marlborough?

Yes. My plane is not though, it's at 1B9 (Mansfield). No lights at 9B1,
you know.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

I suggest you join AOPA. Subscribe Trade a Plane. Learn how to use TAP
appraiser. Find a purchase candidate. Do a title search on who
actually OWNS the plane, (AOPA). Use the AOPA guide to find a mechanic
(NOT the owners mechanic) and tell the mechanic to spend TWO hours
only, compression test, filter cut open and inspect log books. Also
general appearance of plane. Ask owner if EVERYTHING works. If
mechanic says OK, then you should go look at the plane. Test all
avionics, look at condition of paint etc. Fly it. If it meets your
specs, buy plane and fly it home, or have the owner fly it home with
you, or an instructor. Of course you need insurance. Get a quote from
AVEMCO and one other company. If you finance the bank will guide you
through the purchase procedure.
I cannot emphasize the compression test enough. Do at least two of
them. Also the filter cut open and look for oil leaks. Be willing to
turn plane down if engine doesn't meet specs (unless you want to
rebuild the engine immediately). Be aware that engines can be flown
over TBO, and they are "free" hours on engine as engine is already
depreciated. The turbo charged large engines are another matter. They
need cylinders and other work reguarly. But the small Lycomings
typically go past TBO. (360 and smaller). If they have good
compression and dont' burn oil an engine will usually make another 500
hours.

Don't buy a plane with a lot of defects and buy a plane with the
avionics you will be happy with in the future. Repairing planes is
another whole ball game and avionic upgrades are a money pit. Buy a
working plane, with the equipment you want. If it is a minor thing,
like a non-working ADF or something like that, and you are happy with
it, OK. But dont plan on fixing a bunch of broken stuff. They seller
should get the plane in working condition. I prefer that EVERYTHING
works. No exceptions. I'll tolerate worn upolstry and scuffed paint
etc, but all systems should function correctly. Beware of damage
history, though if it has been repaired proffessionally and the forms
file, some damage is ok. Most older planes have had some sort of
damage. There are pristine ones, but you will pay extra.

If you want as trouble free as possible, buy a late model used plane,
one only a few years old with a low time engine. But you will pay for
it and it will probably depreciate as you break it in and scuff it up.
They don't stay new for long. Dollar wise, the older planes will
depreciate less. Planes they don't make anymore but are desirable like
the Cessna 180/185's will probably depreciate the least.

The plane market is soft and probably headed up as the economy grows.
So now is a good time to buy. I hate to admit it, but you can probably
buy at 15% below appraised value right now (the TAP appraiser).
(Depends). The total number of planes advertised in TAP has been
dropping though, an indication the market is heading up.

Good luck and hope you have a lot of money. My Aviat Husky has cost me
$50 an hour to run for the past 4 1/2 years. But they have been the
most fun adventures I can imagine having right now in my life.

"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message .net...
I just got my license (you can find the story of my Presidential TFR
checkride here if your are curious:
http://www.thepilotlounge.com/script...?showtopic=665 )

I am starting to seriously look into owning a plane now.

I can't imagine myself renting anymore since prices are not that good,
renting is inconvenient and clubs are a better deal but they all have
minimum hours restrictions ...

One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose that
I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway across
the country though.

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do I
need to be there?

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Thank you!

Just curious, what kind of plane are you looking at that it would be worth
it, or necessary to go so far from home?

Unless you are enamored with one of the newer designs, or an older design
that is rare, it would seem the cost, hassle, and risk would make it easier
to stay closer to home.

Also, I would caution you that small brokers and individuals generally over
value and/or over represent their planes. New plane distributors, or the
more well known brokers tend to charge a little more, but seem to be
interested in maintaining their good names more than others. They will of
course put a positive outlook on things, but they won't be out in left field
either.






"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
. net...
I just got my license (you can find the story of my Presidential TFR
checkride here if your are curious:
http://www.thepilotlounge.com/script...?showtopic=665 )

I am starting to seriously look into owning a plane now.

I can't imagine myself renting anymore since prices are not that good,
renting is inconvenient and clubs are a better deal but they all have
minimum hours restrictions ...

One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose
that
I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway
across
the country though.

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do I
need to be there?

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane
from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Thank you!

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

I am not looking into a specific plane right now.

I am looking into a "model" type and I was trying to figure out the
logistics of buying a plane that is "far away" (if I find one).

Models I'd be looking for are 172, Warriors and Sundowners for the most
part.

If I can't find anything decent then a 152 or a Tomahawk would suffice I
suppose (but I feel that 152s especially are a bit overpriced).

I am on TAP and AOPA. I have a few airplanes I am eyeing right now ... I
just need to find the guts to lift the phone off the hook and dial the
number.

Right now I don't have a plane. If I lift that phone ... I might have one.

well you know that saying? Careful what you wish, you might just get it.

I have done a lot of research and asked a lot of question but I won't really
know what i am getting into .. until I actually do it.

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Just curious, what kind of plane are you looking at that it would be
worth
it, or necessary to go so far from home?

Unless you are enamored with one of the newer designs, or an older design
that is rare, it would seem the cost, hassle, and risk would make it
easier
to stay closer to home.

Also, I would caution you that small brokers and individuals generally
over
value and/or over represent their planes. New plane distributors, or the
more well known brokers tend to charge a little more, but seem to be
interested in maintaining their good names more than others. They will of
course put a positive outlook on things, but they won't be out in left
field
either.






"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
. net...
I just got my license (you can find the story of my Presidential TFR
checkride here if your are curious:
http://www.thepilotlounge.com/script...?showtopic=665 )

I am starting to seriously look into owning a plane now.

I can't imagine myself renting anymore since prices are not that good,
renting is inconvenient and clubs are a better deal but they all have
minimum hours restrictions ...

One of the questions that has been mulling in my mind is this: suppose
that
I find a plane. It's the model that I am looking for, good times, good
conditions (so the seller says) and good price. The plane is halfway
across
the country though.

How do I go about getting it inspected? Do I call a local (to the plane)
mechanic and arrange a meeting between him, the seller and the plane? Do
I
need to be there?

There's many steps to buying a plane. Title search, loan financing,
insurance, inspection and transfer of ownership.

When do I actually need to be there? If anybody ever purchased a plane
from
far away, how did you handle it? Do you care to share the story?

Thank you!

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My On-line pilot community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com