How safe is a new teenaged pilot?

Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old friend who
is a brand new pilot. We think the boy is level-headed and mature. He grew up
flying with his dad who is a retired test pilot for an aircraft manufacturer.

These credentials not withstanding, I'm guessing that there is increased risk
of accidents with new pilots. We are uncomfortable about letting him fly with
his friend, but we want to be reasonable.

I would appreciate any data or guidance this group could provide.

Thanks

Peter

"anon" wrote in message
news
Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old friend
who
is a brand new pilot. We think the boy is level-headed and mature. He
grew up
flying with his dad who is a retired test pilot for an aircraft
manufacturer.

These credentials not withstanding, I'm guessing that there is increased
risk
of accidents with new pilots. We are uncomfortable about letting him fly
with
his friend, but we want to be reasonable.

I would appreciate any data or guidance this group could provide.

Thanks

Peter

I came up this route myself, and I have a friend, Corky Fornof, who also
came up this route. Both of us soloed very young. My personal opinion is
that if the boy has had solid training and has passed the flight test with
the powers that be in your location, the odds are very good that he is a
capable and skillful pilot.
Dudley Henriques

"anon" wrote in message
news
Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old friend
who
is a brand new pilot. We think the boy is level-headed and mature. He
grew up
flying with his dad who is a retired test pilot for an aircraft
manufacturer.

These credentials not withstanding, I'm guessing that there is increased
risk
of accidents with new pilots. We are uncomfortable about letting him fly
with
his friend, but we want to be reasonable.

I would appreciate any data or guidance this group could provide.

The standard reference for small-plane safety statistics is the Air Safety
Foundation's Nall Report (http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/03nall.pdf).
As far as I know, there are no good statistics about the safety of new
pilots vs. more-experienced pilots. But I doubt new pilots are at increased
risk. It's not that pilots' skills don't continue to improve; but newer
pilots will tend to avoid more-challenging flight circumstances (weather
etc.) that more-experienced pilots might not be deterred by, so the overall
risk might remain about the same.

--Gary

Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old
friend who is a brand new pilot.

New pilots are generally careful, but I'd emphasize to both that
buzzing girlfriend's houses is a no-no. Youth will sometimes be youth.

That said, here's an idea: why don't you take a test ride yourself with
him? (Buying half the flight time would be nice.) You might come away
impressed with his professionalism (or not). Then you can come back
here and mention anything you thought seemed unsafe or unusual, and get
more comments.

You might even decide to become a pilot yourself grin or ask your son
to become one.

Best, Kev

Gary Drescher wrote:

"anon" wrote in message
news
Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old friend
who
is a brand new pilot. We think the boy is level-headed and mature. He
grew up
flying with his dad who is a retired test pilot for an aircraft
manufacturer.

The standard reference for small-plane safety statistics is the Air Safety
Foundation's Nall Report (http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/03nall.pdf).
As far as I know, there are no good statistics about the safety of new
pilots vs. more-experienced pilots.

That report includes the statement that "ASF studies have shown that low
pilot time in type is often a significant contributing factor in
accidents." But I didn't see any specific data there to back it up.
The accompanying chart plots a histogram of accidents vs. PIC hours of
experience but unfortunately doesn't normalize it to the number of
pilots in each band and the number of hours flown by them.

However in this case where you personally know the pilot I would think
your judgement of his maturity would be more predictive of the risk than
any statistics based on the group of inexperienced young pilots as a whole.

"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
New pilots are generally careful, but I'd emphasize to both that
buzzing girlfriend's houses is a no-no. Youth will sometimes be youth.

It might be just like with cars... A 17-yr old driver might not necessarily
be unsafe, but put a few of them together in a car and it gets that way... I
would suggest mounting a video camera in the plane and let them know that
the entire flight will be recorded and anything that is even slightly unsafe
will be dealt with by way of serious punishment... Make your son understand
that he is also responsible for any unsafe actions by his friend and will be
punished...

"Peter" wrote in message
...
Gary Drescher wrote:
The standard reference for small-plane safety statistics is the Air
Safety Foundation's Nall Report
(http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/03nall.pdf). As far as I know,
there are no good statistics about the safety of new pilots vs.
more-experienced pilots.

That report includes the statement that "ASF studies have shown that low
pilot time in type is often a significant contributing factor in
accidents." But I didn't see any specific data there to back it up.

Yup. Plus, low time in type is different from being recently licensed as a
pilot.

The accompanying chart plots a histogram of accidents vs. PIC hours of
experience but unfortunately doesn't normalize it to the number of pilots
in each band and the number of hours flown by them.

Yup. Paul Craig's book The Killing Zone has the same problem. Without
normalization, the data tell us nothing about how safety might vary as a
function of experience.

--Gary

That report includes the statement that "ASF studies have shown that low
pilot time in type is often a significant contributing factor in
accidents." But I didn't see any specific data there to back it up.

I think if we read "between the lines" we will find that the poster is
really concerned with this pilot's youth -- perhaps more so than with his
low flight time.

A 17 year old boy is basically a fleshy container of hormones, with great
stamina, questionable stability, and loads of bravado. This is NOT
necessarily a great fit with being a new pilot -- especially when you put
two of these guys inside the same vehicle.

There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults. They generally have poor judgment, and
are known to end their statements -- and sometimes their lives -- with
"Watch this!"

Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to allow my son to fly with another 17
year old boy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I
would suggest mounting a video camera in the plane and let them know that
the entire flight will be recorded and anything that is even slightly unsafe
will be dealt with by way of serious punishment...

If I were the pilot, I would not fly the passenger under that kind of
threat. Starting out with that attitude tells me the passenger is bad news.

However, mounting a video camera to share the flight with dad would feel
much different.

Having dad take a flight first is the best idea.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
news:Q%Uge.75682$NU4.7336@attbi_s22...
A 17-yr old driver might not necessarily
be unsafe, but put a few of them together in a car and it gets that way...
I would suggest mounting a video camera in the plane and let them know
that
the entire flight will be recorded and anything that is even slightly
unsafe
will be dealt with by way of serious punishment...

Gosh, why limit it to flying? Why not insist on video surveillance whenever
he's in a car, or for that matter any time he's with friends and might
engage in dangerous drug use or unprotected sex? Or better yet, be sure to
accompany him in person whenever he goes out. Preferably attached by a
handcuff, in case he tries to slip away. You can never be too careful with
17-year-olds.