Opinions on AOPA legal services ?

Peter R. wrote:
A good lawyer is one who is on your side. A bad lawyer is one who is on the
other side. ;-)


Ain't that the truth? I was sued a few years ago in a non-aviation matter. I
followed my lawyer's advice to the "T". My deposition took 55 minutes; the
plaintive's a little over 11 hours. In the end, we didn't pay them dick.
Obviously my lawyer was a genius. Their's would have made more money on that
case had he flipped burgers for McDonald's instead. That's what he got for
taking such a moronic case.

Do I have warm and fuzzy feelings for the guy who fought for me? Of course. G

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:08:54 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote in
::

Peter R. wrote:
A good lawyer is one who is on your side. A bad lawyer is one who is on the
other side. ;-)


Ain't that the truth?

Well, it's half the truth.

It's also important that your lawyer is prepared, knows the law,
understands the mechanics of the court, is willing to take your side
in the matter regardless of how the judge feels about the case, and
most importantly, has sufficient fire in his belly to argue
persuasively. Often attorneys are reluctant to move for dismissal on
technical grounds if it makes the court (or the other attorney) look
incompetent, for they may have to present subsequent cases before them
in the future. You'd be amazed at how much law must be digested
before a winning strategy can be chosen. That requires an experienced
and knowledgeable attorney, as well as copious research (for which you
may be unwilling to pay).

That's why it's important for the client to do as much as possible to
assist the attorney. There's little preventing the client from
visiting the local law library, and reading revenant texts. The
client can also provide his attorney with photographic evidence,
contact expert witnesses, and do other investigative work. In the
case of FAA related matters, the client can make Freedom Of
Information Act (FOIA) requests, and contact regional, district and
local personnel for their contributions, and more.

The client who sits on his hands, and expects his attorney to do it
all, either has very deep pockets or at a substantial disadvantage,
IMO.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On 8 Sep 2005 12:24:09 -0700, "
wrote in .com::

Many lawyers give a little time to someone with a question without
charge.

My experience has been that the first half hour telephone consultation
is gratis. I thought it was customary.

It usually is for most. I can't say "all" since some may not.
However it should be, and is by those whom I know.

Those who are a part of the AOPA legal services plan are to be
commended for providing their specialized expertise to we who enjoy
flying.

Specifically commended for what? Are you suggesting that no money
changes hands under the AOPA Legal Services Plan? Certainly the
(non-attorney) plan members have paid an annual fee for their 1/2 hour
consultation. I thought the attorney was also compensated (perhaps at
a reduced rate) by AOPA. Or are you implying the attorney provide his
services at a reduced rate to plan members?

I don't know what the arrangement is, since I'm not one of the AOPA
legal eagles. My guess is that the fee to the lawyer is nothing or
very, very small. The attorney probably does this on the chance he'll
get an interesting case and a good client. Perhaps one of the
participating lawyers will respond on this point.

I am a lawyer, too, but do not feel that I have the expertise
to be a provider in the AOPA plan, although I let it be known to our
recetionist that I would like to take the initial call [sic]rom a pilot or
aircraft owner, because I can usually at least get them headed in the
right direction or to an aviation specialist.

Exactly what are you saying above, that you are on the AOPA's list of
legal providers, but you lack the expertise to do anything but refer
those who have paid for an initial 1/2 hour consultation to another
attorney who can actually help them?


No, I'm not on the list. As I said, it's not my area of expertise.
Sometimes I just get a cold call at the office. So far the cases I've
taken only involved an employment issue for a flight instructor, a
divorce for one, and the creation of a joint venture between two people
involve in an aircraft deal.

Many in the rec.aviation newsgroups love to bash lawyers, usually
without any facts or even any experience actually dealing with one.

I think lawyer jokes are a common staple of comedians also. (Are you
referring to me.)

No; I like lawyer jokes.

Many are some of the most prolific posters. We all know who they are.

I don't.

OK, we don't "all" know who they are. Let's just say that with some
discerning attention to the posts you can probably figure out who I
mean; or search the archives if you care to.

Too bad they can't say anything good about the good deeds that we in
the legal profession provide.


Other experiences with attorneys have ranged from brilliant to
uninformed and ill prepared.

Agreed.

It's difficult to generalize about attornys, with the exception of the
often astronomical fees they are awarded.

This is a complicated subject. We dont want to spend a lot of time on
it. Suffice it to say most attorneys deserve what they get. But...see
below.

That reminds me of a recent credit card bill I received that indicated
a $0.41 credit balance. When I inquired, I was told it was the result
of a class action suit. So I got 41 cents; I wonder what the law
firm's fee was in that case.

Probably millions. I agree that these are frequently out of hand.
However, if a large company cheats millions of people out of a few
dollars each, and knows that no one person can afford to remedy the
abuse he incurred because of its small size, then the company is
getting away with theft, plain and simple. Only through the method of
class action lawsuits will such abuse be stopped. I have, however,
seen firms settle for much less than their (thousands or millions)of
clients deserve, just to get a quick and lucrative fee. In your case
the settlement might have been fair, or it might have settled for 41
cents when you should have gotten $10. You would have gotten at least
one substantial disclosure and notice of the settlement and its terms
(including the atty fees and costs) before the settlement, and you had
the right to opt out of the settlement if you wished and to pursue your
own case if you wanted-that's the law in all class actions.

FWIW, let me tell you about a class action my firm was involved with.
The large oil companies had contracted with millions of landowners
throughout the US, many of whom were small farms located in the various
states, to pay a royalty of 12 1/2 % of all oil taken from the
landowners' lands. The royalty was set at "the prevailing price for
oil on the spot market." At the time, that was around $30+ per barrel.
The oil companies got together and agreed to sell oil to each other at
$12 per barrel. This is true, I couldn't make this up...they actually
loaded up trains of tankcars and company A sold millions of barrels to
company B for $12 per barrel; then company B sold it back to company A
for $12 per barrel. They loaded the trains and the cars literally just
ran back and forth. We actually discovered letters from company execs
complaining to the others that they were "owed" a return shipment!!
This little game was done by almost all, if not all, the biggies and
some smaller companies. That set "the prevailing price"!! ... Nice
guys. You don't really think the present administration was going to
do any thing about it, do you?


On the other hand, I have found the AOPA Legal Services Plan
non-attorney support personnel helpful in the past also.

Have you kissed your lawyer today?

Not today, but when they are instrumental in winning a case, I'm
appreciative.

....The landowners were.

Of course, anyone who fails to appreciate that they are instrumental
in their ultimately prevailing in a case by providing their harried
attorney with specific informatin, direction and support is
delusional. An attorney is often an expert tool, as is a physician,
to be employed as necessary. To abandon one's plight entirely is
seldom wise.

Thanks for all the replies and info so far.

Honestly I wasn't sure if this was a good idea...or if it was like a
lot of aftermarket "service plans" you can buy for your new
dishwasher/car/etc.

Sounds like a good deal for me.

--Don
Don Byrer
Radar Tech & Smilin' Pilot Guy
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."

In article ,
Don Byrer wrote:

Thanks for all the replies and info so far.

Honestly I wasn't sure if this was a good idea...or if it was like a
lot of aftermarket "service plans" you can buy for your new
dishwasher/car/etc.

Sounds like a good deal for me.

--Don
Don Byrer
Radar Tech & Smilin' Pilot Guy
Amateur Radio KJ5KB
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without
bending the gear..."



And I agree, I'm willing to pay the few dollars a year for the peace of
mind...

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD