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#91
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See my corrected posting with correct background.
Big John On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:40:49 -0600, Big John wrote: Have a solution to the dumb *******s problem. NZ is in the Coalition (they have 50 or so engineers rebuilding - not in combat organizations). In the joy running around the States and World with capture of SH it would be an excellent time to pay NZ back for their (unpopular beating around the world for being a member of the Coalition) support and have them ask for something in return. Who know? Stranger things have happened if GVT of NZ gets in the act. Big John My personal bottom line sure doesn't hold him out as a RESPONSIBLE PILOT and he definitely is not a poster boy for GA (or experimental) flight. I can see his book now on how he worked the system. On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:38:05 GMT, John Ammeter wrote: Jon Johanson, known for his round the world flights in his RV-4 as well as flights to Oshkosh may have some trouble getting out of Antartica.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../adventurer_dc |
#92
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Jerry
Since you had the CLUE why didn't you post two days ago? No matter, the end of the story he pulled a dumb assed stunt. When I was Current Ops for USAFSO, we had some support activities to the operation down there so I am talking from more than just my opinions as was stated prior. Big John On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:49:06 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Morgans wrote: "Jerry Springer" wrote My personal bottom line sure doesn't hold him out as a RESPONSIBLE PILOT and he definitely is not a poster boy for GA (or experimental) flight. I can see his book now on how he worked the system. Once again you speak about something you do not have a clue about ######################## Jerry, can't you see that you don't have to have a clue about what was done, to have an opinion? John's "opinion" is no less valid than your opinion. What has been done has been done. What the solution is, is irrelevant. His tit is in the sling, and he is in their house. That makes them right. If he does not like it he can leave. Oh, what's that, you say? He can't leave? Oh yea!!! Did I say they hold all the cards? They do. That is not opinion. What you and I think is irrelevant. They call the shots. Period. In the meantime, insulting others does nothing but make you look foolish. Have a nice day! Jim if any of you had a clue you would have known he left a couple days ago. |
#93
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Duh, I did on 12/15
Jerry Big John wrote: Jerry Since you had the CLUE why didn't you post two days ago? No matter, the end of the story he pulled a dumb assed stunt. When I was Current Ops for USAFSO, we had some support activities to the operation down there so I am talking from more than just my opinions as was stated prior. Big John On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:49:06 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Morgans wrote: "Jerry Springer" wrote My personal bottom line sure doesn't hold him out as a RESPONSIBLE PILOT and he definitely is not a poster boy for GA (or experimental) flight. I can see his book now on how he worked the system. Once again you speak about something you do not have a clue about ######################## Jerry, can't you see that you don't have to have a clue about what was done, to have an opinion? John's "opinion" is no less valid than your opinion. What has been done has been done. What the solution is, is irrelevant. His tit is in the sling, and he is in their house. That makes them right. If he does not like it he can leave. Oh, what's that, you say? He can't leave? Oh yea!!! Did I say they hold all the cards? They do. That is not opinion. What you and I think is irrelevant. They call the shots. Period. In the meantime, insulting others does nothing but make you look foolish. Have a nice day! Jim if any of you had a clue you would have known he left a couple days ago. |
#94
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Jerry
Checked this thread back to 12/12 and no posting by you that all was solved and he was gone on his way. Are you sure you wrote and hit your send key? Big John On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:11:19 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Duh, I did on 12/15 Jerry Big John wrote: Jerry Since you had the CLUE why didn't you post two days ago? No matter, the end of the story he pulled a dumb assed stunt. When I was Current Ops for USAFSO, we had some support activities to the operation down there so I am talking from more than just my opinions as was stated prior. Big John On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:49:06 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Morgans wrote: "Jerry Springer" wrote My personal bottom line sure doesn't hold him out as a RESPONSIBLE PILOT and he definitely is not a poster boy for GA (or experimental) flight. I can see his book now on how he worked the system. Once again you speak about something you do not have a clue about ######################## Jerry, can't you see that you don't have to have a clue about what was done, to have an opinion? John's "opinion" is no less valid than your opinion. What has been done has been done. What the solution is, is irrelevant. His tit is in the sling, and he is in their house. That makes them right. If he does not like it he can leave. Oh, what's that, you say? He can't leave? Oh yea!!! Did I say they hold all the cards? They do. That is not opinion. What you and I think is irrelevant. They call the shots. Period. In the meantime, insulting others does nothing but make you look foolish. Have a nice day! Jim if any of you had a clue you would have known he left a couple days ago. |
#95
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Jerry Checked this thread back to 12/12 and no posting by you that all was solved and he was gone on his way. Are you sure you wrote and hit your send key? Big John +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have this to offer in Jerry's behalf..... On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:53:19 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Ah Forrest he is already on his way, by this time is probably already at his next destination. Barnyard BOb -- |
#96
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Big John wrote: Jerry Checked this thread back to 12/12 and no posting by you that all was solved and he was gone on his way. Are you sure you wrote and hit your send key? Big John On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 04:11:19 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote: Duh, I did on 12/15 Jerry Big John wrote: Jerry Since you had the CLUE why didn't you post two days ago? No matter, the end of the story he pulled a dumb assed stunt. ****************** Sorry posted the following on "12/14" not 12/15 Jerry Ah Forrest he is already on his way, by this time is probably already at his next destination. Forrest wrote: "Forrest" wrote in message ... "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news In article , "Forrest" wrote: What if all of those persons who are sympathetic to Jon Johanson's plight were to put their money where their mouth is, start a fund, hire a whatever, send a hero, make us all cry tears of joy, and save Jon. I do not write this with animosity. Prove to me that there is a legitimate fund in place and I'll send five bucks. And I've never even heard of the guy before I started reading these strings. A better idea is to contact our Congressmen and send NSF a message! They are WAY out of line here and need to be reigned in, just like a lot of other governmental organizations. Like I said. Five bucks. Forrest Write congress and leave the guy out there freezing his ass off while we wait?! PROVE that there is a LEGITIMATE fund in place and, hell, I'll make it TEN bucks. Any takers or movers and shakers out there? Forrest |
#97
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Big John wrote:
Been a small flame and here is some fuel for a big flame. A lot of people posting need to research the Treaties, rules and regulations for any type operations in Antarctica. Also if one reads old and current history there are multitudes of stories about the Wx changes within 10-15 minutes with very high winds coming up and zero visibility lasting for days. Wx forecasting down there is more of an art than a science. With any sense you don't fly into that area without lots of backup and alternate options. Particularly in a GA bird. Way back when I was just a tadpole on my pappy's knee, he was an aviator in VX-6, the Navy's Antarctic Exploration Squadron (formerly known as the Puckered Penguins, which had a cool patch that showed a shnockered penguin with a bottle of XXX in one flipper and a cigar in the other, which they then changed later to a kinder/gentler "Ice Pirates", which sure sounded a little too much like A-- Pirates to me). Those guys flew down to "the ice" in their DC-4s, with a few weather ships stationed along the way, and their spinning compasses, etc. Once there after many turnbacks at the point-of-no-return, they would lose a few planes each season, as they went where no man had gone before. High adventure, baby! I have a special place in my heart for Antartic aviators. I applaud our Aussie friend for going for it, treaties and weather be damned. Rules are for regular people. He took the big odds in a calculated risk. Power to him. I can just imagine hour after hour over the loneliest, most unfriendly to life terrain on this planet, bar no other. Like an endless 0/0 night carrier landing. In a homebuilt that could have come out of my garage, if I had half the cajones. I salute you, my friend. Mike |
#98
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:11:20 -0600, Big John
wrote: I look at it this way, due to my "upbringing", to not help is .. well, un-american regardless of rules and regulations, or the reason for the need in the first place. OTOH, there is absolutely nothing wrong with charging an arm and a leg so save some ones ass. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?) www.rogerhalstead.com Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers |
#99
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To give closure.
OBE as one of my old bosses used to say. Big John On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:38:05 GMT, John Ammeter wrote: Jon Johanson, known for his round the world flights in his RV-4 as well as flights to Oshkosh may have some trouble getting out of Antartica.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../adventurer_dc |
#100
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In article ,
Andrew Rowley wrote: (Robert Bonomi) wrote: I'd suggest it is far _worse_ form for the PIC *not* to have "made sure of" the necessary resources =in=advance=/ If a pilot makes an "emergency" (or otherwise) landing in a farmer's field, is that farmer obligated in any way to sell him fuel from his farm holding tank, so he can fly the plane back out? What, if *anything*, is different about the two scenarios? Presumably, Jon *knew* he was going to need fuel when he got there. WHY DIDN'T HE MAKE ADVANCE ARRANGEMENTS to ship _his_own_ fuel there? What 'flight services' were listed as available at that location? Betcha it's "no services". My understanding is he wasn't actually planning to go there. There are probably a number of problems with shipping fuel to places you are not planning to go, just in case: - it's expensive to ship it there - you may have to ship it out again if you don't use it - I'm not sure whether they would let you leave it there indefinitely So? It costs money. Big deal. It's called "the cost of insurance". If his planning/methodology is as good as people are claiming, he _knew_ that he might have to 'divert' there. And he _consciously_ chose -not- to have that 'insurance' in place *IF* he did have to divert there. As events unfolded, he _does_ need the insurance that he decided not to have. If it was an 'informed' decision, in retrospect it was the -wrong- decision, and the fact remains that he's got nobody to blame but himself for making *that* choice. If it was an *UN-INFORMED* decision, then it is clear that the failure lies with the decision-maker. For -not- properly researching things _before_ making the decision. There is no 'third possibility'. Thus, _however_ that *fatally*flawed* decision was made, John bears the responsibility for it. And he has to "live with" the consequences of that bad decision. Yeah, it'd be "nice" if the NSF would "bail him out". However, they have *NO*OBLIGATION*WHATSOEVER* to do so. They have what *THEY* believe to be good reasons for _not_ doing so. Including, but not limited to: "the next bozo who shows up in like circumstances, and yells 'discrimination', when we refuse to supply him, given that we _did_ supply somebody else." With the exception of a _very_limited_ collection of 'personal belongings', *everything* on that base comes out of "somebody's" budget, and material _and_ labor has to be cost-accounted for. "Rescuing stranded adventurers" is simply _not_ in the budget. _Any_ materials used for such purposes have to be replaced. This consumes people's time, reduces the materials available for 'primary purpose' of the facility for an _indefinite_ period (until replaced), and raises a potential nightmare of logistics consequences. EVERYTHING is 'rationed', and consumption in excess of projected levels _is_ a big issue. *GIVEN* that "somebody" is going to have to: arrange for 'supplies' for Johanson to be shipped in (either what he actually uses, *or* the 'replacement' for material from on-site inventory), *pay* for the materials, *pay* for the transport, etc., etc., ad nauseum. *WHY* should the NSF take on those chores, vs Mr. Johanson _doing_it_himself_? Possible reasons Mr. Johanson isn't doing it for himself: 1) doesn't have the know-how and/or contacts 2) doesn't have the financial resources 3) traffic to/from the area is 'restricted' We can eliminate #3, since occasional tourist ships go there. The 'far frontiers' *ARE* an "attractive nuisance". They draw the kooks, loonies, and glory-seekers like a magnet. *WITHOUT* considering whether Mr. Johanson fits that description, It *is* a fact that "helping" him return from his botched 'adventure' *WOULD* cause those who _do_ fit the "kooks, loonies, and glory-seekers" categorization to be more likely to make their own *ill-prepared* attempts. Resulting in _bigger_ drains on the *limited* resources available. |
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