LS 4 vs ASW 20

Your opinions please.

Walt

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:32:37 PM UTC+2, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.

LS4 has go to be the easiest and safest std class glider to fly. Excellent performance if flown correctly (don't thermal too slow - fast and steep seems better), goes well loaded with water, big cockpit, foolproof (well, almost) gear system. If it was in production now, it would be the perfect first solo glider.

ASW-20 is a classic, great performance, but can be tricky in some configurations, and probably not a beginners's glider.

Both are wonderful to fly - which is better depends on what you want to do. Fun flying - the LS4 it tough to beat. Serious XC or racing on a budget? The 20 can hang in there still and has the "busy" feel that can be really cool.

Kirk
66

In article ,
"kirk.stant" wrote:


Both are wonderful to fly - which is better depends on what you want to do.
Fun flying - the LS4 it tough to beat. Serious XC or racing on a budget? The
20 can hang in there still and has the "busy" feel that can be really cool.

Kirk
66


Yes, the "busy" feel of the glider talking about what the air is doing.
That's my only reservation about the LS-4. It is almost too placid in
the air. I'm used to flying a 301 Libelle, the very definition of a
"busy" feeling glider. LS-4's, while extremely easy and pleasant to fly,
feel almost "dead" to me compared to my Libelle or a -20.

My preference, from flying so long with flaps, is for flapped ships.
Whenever I fly an unflapped ship, it always feels like diving at the
ground to go fast.

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:30:51 AM UTC-4, WB wrote:
In article ,


My preference, from flying so long with flaps, is for flapped ships.

Whenever I fly an unflapped ship, it always feels like diving at the

ground to go fast.

I think the Brits coined the term "tilters" for folks who fly Standard Class vs. Flapped gliders. We tilt at the ground to go faster. You shove the flap handle forward. :-)

P3
Flapless and Proud

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:30:51 AM UTC-4, WB wrote:
In article ,

Yes, the "busy" feel of the glider talking about what the air is doing.

That's my only reservation about the LS-4. It is almost too placid in

the air. I'm used to flying a 301 Libelle, the very definition of a

"busy" feeling glider. LS-4's, while extremely easy and pleasant to fly,

feel almost "dead" to me compared to my Libelle or a -20.



My preference, from flying so long with flaps, is for flapped ships.

Whenever I fly an unflapped ship, it always feels like diving at the

ground to go fast.

FWIW and not to get too far off topic, but... I found the LS4 reacted very well to CG fiddling. The sweet spot for my flying style was about 80-85% of aft limit (I liked to thermal as slow as possible and relatively steep for the typical mid-atlantic thermals). Too far forward and it just felt too sluggish/stable. YMMV.

.... foolproof (well, almost) gear system. If it was in production now, it would be the perfect first solo glider.
While I think the LS4 is the easiest to fly glider I've ever flown, and I LOVE the control harmony and the way it 'grooves' in thermals, I have to take issue with the statement about the gear system. I believe the use of a gas spring in the gear extension system is completely insane. WHEN the gas strut fails, you will be able to RETRACT the gear perfectly. You just won't be able to lock it down. Search 'gear collapse' in RAS.

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:16:23 AM UTC-4, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
... foolproof (well, almost) gear system. If it was in production now, it would be the perfect first solo glider.

While I think the LS4 is the easiest to fly glider I've ever flown, and I LOVE the control harmony and the way it 'grooves' in thermals, I have to take issue with the statement about the gear system. I believe the use of a gas spring in the gear extension system is completely insane. WHEN the gas strut fails, you will be able to RETRACT the gear perfectly. You just won't be able to lock it down. Search 'gear collapse' in RAS.

Been there, done that. Gear collapse during an outlanding due to gas strut failure. This is not a pleasant fealing

You also have to take into account the availability for the parts. As the LS4 is no longer in production, I believe you have to pay the infamous DG taxe to get support.

Yannick

On May 19, 9:32*am, Walt Connelly
wrote:
Your opinions please.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Walt -

Both are great gliders. Unless you're interested in pushing them to
the absolute limit, you should probably base this decision on non-
flying characteristics. The two ones I'd be most-concerned about a
1) Ergonomics. Which glider fits you better? If you're going for any
multi-hour flights, cockpit ergonomics becomes important!
2) Trailer. Which glider has a better trailer? Cobra/Komet "clamshell-
type" trailers are much preferable to tube-type trailers (I say this
having owned both).

Of course price pays a factor, as does the double-edged sword of flaps
(you can go faster, faster; but its an additional item to worry about
every time you transition from climbing to cruise, cruise to climb, on
takeoff, and on landing).

Good luck,

--Noel

On Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:32:37 AM UTC-5, Walt Connelly wrote:
Your opinions please.



Walt









--

Walt Connelly

I had a Minden tube ..... great trailer. Easy in/out, tows great..... the gelcoat or refinish is the money question.

I'm 6' tall and weight more than I'd like. Though I have no experience with the ASW20 to compare, I found the LS4 quite comfortable except for the time the seat was too far forward and my parachute too low...