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BMW engine aircraft suitable?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 27th 09, 09:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ralf Mueller
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Posts: 8
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Philippe wrote:
....

At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.


are you joking? 193 HP @ 60 Kg that is turbine land.....
  #12  
Old November 27th 09, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Philippe[_4_]
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Posts: 26
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

Ralf Mueller a écrit:

At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.


are you joking? 193 HP @ 60 Kg that is turbine land.....


Rendez-vous when this engine will fly....
At this time, yes, it is jokes.

This BMW engine is not easy to use, it'built on the same sheme than
japenese engines.

--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬
  #13  
Old November 27th 09, 10:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bildan
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Posts: 646
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

On Nov 27, 1:57*pm, Philippe wrote:
Ralf Mueller a écrit:

At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.


are you joking? 193 HP @ 60 Kg that is turbine land.....


* Rendez-vous when this engine will fly....
*At this time, yes, it is jokes.

*This BMW engine is not easy to use, it'built on the same sheme than
japenese engines.

--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
* * Philippe Vessaire *Ò¿Ó¬


Not sure about the BMW but most of these motorcycle in-line 4's have a
separate cylinder block and a split crankcase a la Lycoming/
Continental. All the expensive, hard to reverse engineer, power
tricks are in the cylinder block and heads.

So, learn about metallurgy and CNC machining. Make a custom crankcase
and crank for two in-line 4 blocks. Presto! A silky smooth, liquid
cooled, opposed 8 cyl 300 HP airplane engine. The motorcycle-type
balanced crank throws eliminate a need for a flywheel and the 5:1
planetary PSRU fits in the nose case.

2.0 liter is probably overkill so look for a 500cc in-line 4.
  #14  
Old November 27th 09, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

"Karl-Heinz Künzel" wrote in message
...
Morgans schrieb:
"Ralf Mueller" wrote in message
...
just read about the new BMW S 1000 RR bike. The complete engine assembly
is less than 60 KG. Engine puts out 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm). Wouldn't
that one (slightly detuned) make a nice SLA powerplant ;-))


193 HP ??? Are you positive about that number? I would like to see
where that number came from, if it is available on the net, if you
wouldn't mind.

If it is correct, that should do rather nicely. People have flown BMW
bike engines in the past. I believe that most of the successful ones
have used a different gearbox to reduce the prop RPM. Seems to me that I
remember that they adapted a Rotax gearbox to the job, but I doubt that
there are any Rotax gearboxed that could handle 193 HP.


Here in Germany we do have this BMW conversion -

http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Des...ne_02-2006.pdf

but those numbers are far away from 193HP (112 Nm, 12,000rpm).

KH

The spur gear system should work reliably provided that the centrifugal
clutch is on the engine side, rather than the propeller side, of the gears.

Peter



  #15  
Old November 28th 09, 01:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
cavelamb[_2_]
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Posts: 257
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

bildan wrote:
On Nov 27, 1:57 pm, Philippe wrote:
Ralf Mueller a écrit:

At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.
are you joking? 193 HP @ 60 Kg that is turbine land.....

Rendez-vous when this engine will fly....
At this time, yes, it is jokes.

This BMW engine is not easy to use, it'built on the same sheme than
japenese engines.

--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬


Not sure about the BMW but most of these motorcycle in-line 4's have a
separate cylinder block and a split crankcase a la Lycoming/
Continental. All the expensive, hard to reverse engineer, power
tricks are in the cylinder block and heads.

So, learn about metallurgy and CNC machining. Make a custom crankcase
and crank for two in-line 4 blocks. Presto! A silky smooth, liquid
cooled, opposed 8 cyl 300 HP airplane engine. The motorcycle-type
balanced crank throws eliminate a need for a flywheel and the 5:1
planetary PSRU fits in the nose case.

2.0 liter is probably overkill so look for a 500cc in-line 4.


How many engines have you built and flown?

  #16  
Old November 28th 09, 04:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

On Nov 27, 5:22*pm, cavelamb wrote:
bildan wrote:
On Nov 27, 1:57 pm, Philippe * wrote:
Ralf Mueller a écrit:


At this time, nobody built an alternate engine lighter than an
aircraft design engine.
are you joking? 193 HP @ 60 Kg that is turbine land.....
* Rendez-vous when this engine will fly....
*At this time, yes, it is jokes.


*This BMW engine is not easy to use, it'built on the same sheme than
japenese engines.


--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
* * Philippe Vessaire *Ò¿Ó¬


Not sure about the BMW but most of these motorcycle in-line 4's have a
separate cylinder block and a split crankcase a la Lycoming/
Continental. *All the expensive, hard to reverse engineer, power
tricks are in the cylinder block and heads.


So, learn about metallurgy and CNC machining. *Make a custom crankcase
and crank for two in-line 4 blocks. *Presto! *A silky smooth, liquid
cooled, opposed 8 cyl 300 HP airplane engine. *The motorcycle-type
balanced crank throws eliminate a need for a flywheel and the 5:1
planetary PSRU fits in the nose case.


2.0 liter is probably overkill so look for a 500cc in-line 4.


How many engines have you built and flown?


I've re-built and flown a lot of aircraft engines - including an
Allison V-1710. I've also built a lot of racing engines for both cars
and motorcycles. I understand the good and bad of each.
  #17  
Old November 28th 09, 05:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?


"stol" wrote

Bellt drives do just that.


Indeed, and they would be my favored means of PSRU. With this case, we are
talking about needing between a 4:1 or 5:1 reduction. That would make for a
mighty big big pulley. ;-)
--
Jim in NC


  #18  
Old November 28th 09, 10:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
stol
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

On Nov 28, 9:40*am, "Morgans" wrote:
"stol" wrote

Bellt drives do just that.


Indeed, and they would be my favored means of PSRU. *With this case, we are
talking about needing between a 4:1 or 5:1 reduction. *That would make for a
mighty big big pulley. ;-)
--
Jim in NC


5-1 ,,,, Geez, that ain't no pulley... Thats a spinner with
grooves... GG
  #19  
Old December 3rd 09, 06:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Philippe[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

bildan a écrit:

Molt Taylor was right. It's really hard to make a PSRU work well on
any engine with less than 8 cylinders. That's one reason why I
suggested fitting two small displacement, 4-cyl blocks together to
make a flat-8.


A six cylinder in row or any engine with balance shaft may do the job.
Or, better, a Wankel....

I agree with the planetary gear (C6 from Ford transmission ?)

The chalange is always the dynamic comportement, vibrations may
cause severe overloads.

--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬
  #20  
Old December 3rd 09, 08:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default BMW engine aircraft suitable?

On Dec 3, 10:35*am, Philippe wrote:
bildan a écrit:

Molt Taylor was right. *It's really hard to make a PSRU work well on
any engine with less than 8 cylinders. *That's one reason why I
suggested fitting two small displacement, 4-cyl blocks together to
make a flat-8.


* A six cylinder in row or any engine with balance shaft may do the job..
Or, better, a Wankel....

*I agree with the planetary gear (C6 from Ford transmission ?)

The chalange is always the dynamic comportement, vibrations may
cause severe overloads.

--
une télé qui s'éteint et c'est un cerveau qui s'éveille
* * Philippe Vessaire *Ò¿Ó¬


There are planetary gear sets from every major auto maker in the world
so there are hundreds to choose from. The drag race guys sell beefed
up planetary units in any ratio you can think of.

I was thinking of 8 cylinders for another reason. It's very hard to
see how two spark plugs could fit in a cylinder head with 4 valves and
two overhead cams. A second strategy could be to run 4 cylinders with
one ignition system and the other 4 with a 2nd system. If one failed,
the engine would still run on 4 cylinders albeit with only ~30% power,
but that might enough to get me to an emergency landing field. A 6
cyl running on 3 might not.
 




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