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vfr on top



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 21st 10, 01:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default vfr on top

On Feb 20, 10:43*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

That's not "IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel", t


Your terminology flat out wrong...... Based on the question you
asked, my scenario answered your question. You said VFR ON TOP.

You can't be VFR on top WITHOUT an IFR clearance. VFR on TOP is IFR.

Once you cancel IFR, you no longer are VFR on top. So what you say
above is absolutely an impossible scenario.

There is specific terminology for VFR traffic that you are not picking
up on and that is VFR OVER the top.

That is build in for VFR. VFR rules require contact with the ground
OR maintain 1000 feet above the cloud deck and fly VFR OVER the top
with your departure and destination being VFR for the flight to be
legal.

And even then you don't report to ATC that you are VFR over the top,
it's just simple flight following.

In my answer to you, , I file IFR, fly through the cloud, get VFR on
top and cancel IFR. Once I cancel IFR, I have the option of electing
flight following and maintaining VFR OVER the top. In this case, you
could drop me for workload consideration.

You can't drop me if I am VFR ON TOP as I am IFR until I cancel.
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  #22  
Old February 21st 10, 01:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default vfr on top

On Feb 20, 1:36*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

What are the advantages
of *IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?


You should know the answer to this.

You watch me closer and provide REQUIRED separation when I am VFR on
top. You can't drop me when I am VFR on top as it's still IFR.

  #23  
Old February 21st 10, 01:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 7:21*am, " wrote:
On Feb 20, 1:36*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

What are the advantages
of *IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?


You should know the answer to this.

You watch me closer and provide REQUIRED separation when I am VFR on
top. *You can't drop me when I am VFR on top as it's still IFR.


Correction to the above thinking this through. Separation would be
VFR rules. Duh, hence VFR on top. The rest still stands.

VFR on top is an IFR clearance and ATC cannot drop me until they hear
those magic words cancel IFR. That is the benefit of VFR on top.
  #24  
Old February 21st 10, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 7:17*am, " wrote:
On Feb 20, 10:43*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

That's not "IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel", t


Your terminology flat out wrong...... *Based on the question you
asked, my scenario answered your question. *You said VFR ON TOP.


"IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel" is not my terminology, it's the OP's,
Myname. Your response did not answer the question I directed to him.



You can't be VFR on top WITHOUT an *IFR clearance. *VFR on TOP is IFR..


Correct.



Once you cancel IFR, you no longer are VFR on top. * So what you say
above is absolutely an impossible scenario.


And that's why I asked the question.



There is specific terminology for VFR traffic that you are not picking
up on and that is VFR OVER the top.


We're not talking about that.



That is build in for VFR. *VFR rules require contact with the ground
OR maintain 1000 feet above the cloud deck and fly VFR OVER the top
with your departure and destination being VFR for the flight to be
legal.

And even then you don't report to ATC that you are VFR over the top,
it's just simple flight following.


Flight following is not a requirement of VFR over-the-top operations.



In my answer to you, , I file IFR, fly through the cloud, get VFR on
top and cancel IFR. *Once I cancel IFR, I have the option of electing
flight following and maintaining VFR OVER the top. *In this case, you
could drop me for workload consideration.


But why request VFR-on-top if all you want to do is punch a cloud deck
and cancel upon reaching VFR conditions? Why ask for something you
don't intend to use?



You can't drop me if I am VFR ON TOP as I am IFR until I cancel.


Correct.



  #25  
Old February 21st 10, 02:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 7:21*am, " wrote:
On Feb 20, 1:36*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

What are the advantages
of *IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?


You should know the answer to this.


I do, the answer is "None."



You watch me closer and provide REQUIRED separation when I am VFR on
top.


Wrong. No separation is provided to aircraft operating VFR-on-top
outside of Class B or Class C airspace, including the outer area, or
TRSAs.



You can't drop me when I am VFR on top as it's still IFR.


You're canceling IFR.

  #26  
Old February 21st 10, 03:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Posts: 838
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 8:09*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

You can't drop me when I am VFR on top as it's still IFR.


You're canceling IFR.


Reporting VFR on top is not "IFR cancellation" You have to hear the
words IFR cancellation by the pilot before I am out of the IFR
environment. I can fly 1000 miles while VFR on top but I am still
IFR.

Cancellation would be. Memphis Center, 43L reporting VFR on top, I
would like to cancel my IFR.

  #27  
Old February 21st 10, 03:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 9:14*am, " wrote:
On Feb 21, 8:09*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

You can't drop me when I am VFR on top as it's still IFR.


You're canceling IFR.


Reporting VFR on top is not "IFR cancellation" *You have to hear the
words IFR cancellation by the pilot before I am out of the IFR
environment. *I can fly 1000 miles while VFR on top but I am still
IFR.

Cancellation would be. *Memphis Center, 43L reporting VFR on top, I
would like to cancel my IFR.


The question was, "What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then
cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?" You're canceling IFR in each
case, we're not discussing VFR-on-top operations of any distance.



  #28  
Old February 21st 10, 03:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Posts: 838
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 9:40*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

The question was, "What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then
cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?" *You're canceling IFR in each
case, we're not discussing VFR-on-top operations of any distance.


Whatever Steve. You asked what the advantages of IFR to VFR on top and
I answered.

  #30  
Old February 21st 10, 04:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default vfr on top

On Feb 21, 9:52*am, " wrote:
On Feb 21, 9:40*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

The question was, "What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then
cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?" *You're canceling IFR in each
case, we're not discussing VFR-on-top operations of any distance.


Whatever Steve. You asked what the advantages of IFR to VFR on top and
I answered.


No, I asked "what are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top THEN
CANCEL?" In other words, why request VFR-on-top if you don't intend
to operate VFR-on-top?

 




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