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P-51's in movie "Empire of the Sun"



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 18th 04, 10:56 PM
zxcv
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Default P-51's in movie "Empire of the Sun"

I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing themselves
up?


  #2  
Old March 19th 04, 02:52 AM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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zxcv wrote:
I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing themselves
up?



Fly real fast? I'm not sure about the bombing, but I do know the P-51s in that
movie were actually radio controlled models. Looked pretty good, too.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com


  #4  
Old March 19th 04, 04:31 AM
QDurham
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Dropping bombs *accurately that way is something else.

Iin the 50s the USN called it Seaman's Eye Bombing. Did it in P2Vs. Proptips
maybe 3 - 5 feet above the water. Damnably accurate!

Quent
  #5  
Old March 19th 04, 06:54 AM
Bela P. Havasreti
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On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:52:10 -0500, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

zxcv wrote:
I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing themselves
up?



Fly real fast? I'm not sure about the bombing, but I do know the P-51s in that
movie were actually radio controlled models. Looked pretty good, too.


There were no doubt, models used but there were also real (full-size)
Mustangs used in the footage. I seem to recall reading in one of
the aviation trade rags about some of the "low level" flying done in
the movie, and how the pilots thoroughly enjoyed it.

Bela P. Havasreti
  #6  
Old March 19th 04, 10:30 AM
M. H. Greaves
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I've just finished reading the book to the film, as usual, though the film
is quite excellent, i enjoyed the book a bit more, you find that there are
things in the book that may not be in the film, and one or two of the parts
of a film may be "holywood'ised!".
Great film, and very interesting.
"zxcv" wrote in message
...
I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs.

Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing

themselves
up?




  #7  
Old March 19th 04, 11:09 AM
Dave Eadsforth
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In article , zxcv
writes
I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing themselves
up?


I understand that the way in which bombs are dropped from low level is a
combination of delay fuze (as already mentioned by another respondent)
and the attack profile. If you bomb from enough height to be able to
depart to a safe distance before the bomb goes off then that's okay,
even with impact fuzes. If you are going to be still close to the bomb
when the fuze is impact triggered then it should be a delay fuze, so you
can depart to said safe distance. That's the obvious basic principle.

But I guess that many complications can set in. For instance, (question
to you bods who have actually done this kind of thing) low level skip
bombing will probably give good accuracy, but I assume one must know a
bit about the nature of the target. If the target is sufficiently
massive (e.g. building/ship) so as to be able to bring the bomb to a
halt, then a short delay fuze should be fine - the aircraft will be a
long way the other side by the time the bomb goes off. But if the
target is less robust, the bomb could go straight through the target
(impact triggering the delay fuze as it does so) and accompany the
aircraft for some distance beyond; not nice, and suggests that an attack
from height would have been better.

That leads me to assume that somewhere in the mission planning process,
(following the target description) choice of fuze and attack profile
will be defined, and the safety parameters stated. I assume that even
on general roving tactical bombing missions in WWII, pilots would choose
which targets were safe to attack in a particular mode; given the fuzing
of the bombs they carried.

Re. the film 'Empire of the Sun', am I right to remember that one of the
bombs dropped by a P-51 actually flew off to one side rather than going
straight ahead? I thought at the time it must have been a low-density
repro to do that - rather than a real cast steel jobby.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth
  #8  
Old March 19th 04, 12:00 PM
Cub Driver
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I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing themselves
up?


This seems pretty routine in contemporary movies. It was ture I think
in Saving Private Ryan, in Windtalkers, and of course in Pearl Harbor,
where a P-40 chases a Zero down a street, about the level of the
second-story windows.

Of course at one time or another, planes flew at every altitude right
down to impact. The artistic failure is to take the exceptional and
make it routine.

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
  #9  
Old March 19th 04, 12:42 PM
M. H. Greaves
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yes i did, and what about young jim, managing to get in so close to the
planes?? he's a prisoner right, whats going on there??
I liked frank and basie!! well played parts; jim gets into the mens dorm,
and says to frank ina yankee accent, "Hey, how ya doin' frank", i found that
quite funny!!
yep a good film.
In pearl harbor, how come suddenly the whole USA war effert revolves around
the two good friends??
I got the feeling that if we'd lost either of them too soon in the film, the
war was lost and the japs would have won!! ridiculous i know but you what i
mean!
"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs.

Would
this really have been done? How did the planes keep from blowing

themselves
up?


This seems pretty routine in contemporary movies. It was ture I think
in Saving Private Ryan, in Windtalkers, and of course in Pearl Harbor,
where a P-40 chases a Zero down a street, about the level of the
second-story windows.

Of course at one time or another, planes flew at every altitude right
down to impact. The artistic failure is to take the exceptional and
make it routine.

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com



  #10  
Old March 19th 04, 03:10 PM
vincent p. norris
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On the other hand, some movie directors don't really care --

The director of "Midway" for example. Too many bloopers to mention.

For example: Ensign Gay shown flying an SB2U *Dive* bomber, not a
TBD *torpedo* bomber; but when he was shot down, it miraculously
turned into an F6F.

Charleton Heston's kid flies an F4F but lands (badly) an F6F.

Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera.

vince norris
 




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