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#22
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(JDupre5762) wrote: The lost squadron was "Flight 19" and the circumstances surrounding their disappearance has never been explained despite the above "simple explanation". None of the aircraft nor any sign of survival gear have ever been found. The flight leader didn't just get lost, the entire flight lost all bearing on where they were and could not establish a way back to base. The sky was reported as distorted, not making sense as well as time being lost. The above posts claims they crashed in the Triangle but they have never been found. Some excitement was caused years back when other TBM aircraft were discovered in the area but they were NOT Flight 19. For more information read the book "The Disappearance of Flight 19" (1980) by Larry Kusche (ISBN: 0060124776). Best place to get it from: www.bookfinder.com Rob From: (robert arndt) It has been satisfactorily explained several times beginning with the Navy Court of Inquiry in 1945. Several years ago a pilot who was also in the air at the same time and tried to communicate with Flight 19 mentioned in an interview that at the time there was no real mystery as to what happened. Everyone involved realized that the Flight Leader was disoriented including other members of the flight who tried to point out that they were headed in the wrong direction. These were Navy pilots trained to follow the orders of the flight leader. As for no wreckage being found it is a big ocean and even 5 TBMs are pretty small. By the time they crashed it was dark and there was a storm raging. Prospects of surviving that ditching are pretty small. Prospects of any wreckage being scattered to hell and gone are pretty great. Whole ships have been lost with no more wreckage left than would fill a suitcase. The aircraft will eventually be found where the half dozen radio fixes placed them about 100 miles northeast of the northern corner of Florida. The best book ever written on the subject of the Triangle is The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved; it absolutely demolishes all the cockamamie theories with actual research with sources like the New York Times and Lloyds Shipping Register and records of Courts of Inquiry. John Dupre' Yes, but the author never interviewed anyone involved with any of the non-Flight 19 incidents; he relied on long-distance phone calls and later admitted filtering out information from eyewitness accounts and official documents that conflicted with his debunking-sort of like Phill Klass with UFOs: if the info or witness contradicts your preconceptions, disregard it. Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access! |
#23
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And what about the other missing search plane too? Just
coincidence? The search plane took off out of the Banana River NAS and blew up shortly afterward. Martin PBM Mariners were famous for leaking gas into the fuselage and blowing up as a result. Again there was no mystery to the Navy over the loss of the PBM which was seen to crash by a number of vessels at sea at the time. The popular books distort the timeline and make it seem that the PBM disappeared at the same time as Flight 19 was declaring itself lost. In fact the PBM was dispatched hours later to begin searching for Flight 19 when it was clear they would end up ditching. John Dupre' |
#24
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Dave Holford wrote:
I would be very surprised if you have not accumulated a good many hours in the skies of the Bermuda triangle over the years. For sure Dave... I seem to recall some years ago a statement, which I think originated with the USCG, that there were actually less aircraft and marine casualties in the Bermuda triange than other areas, it was just the traffic density that accounted for the numbers. Dave Sounds right...it's certainly one bitchin wild spot for weather in the fall and winter too. Friggin Gale Alley there and even worse off the East Coast of Newfie baby-sitting a fence of sonobuoys for hour after hour at endurance power and occasionally replacing a dud...Jesus I'm glad I'm retired. -- -Gord. |
#25
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"Dave Kearton"
wrote: Thinking more about the 'career snow' that you would have encountered in the Argus. Our Orion crews rarely see _very_ cold weather, except when gong way down south along the Antarctic coast and on rotations to the northern hemisphere. Still, I suppose flying into a white out is similar to flying at night - if you're prepared (and trained) for it. Yes indeed...BTW, did you ever read "Impact Erebus"?...about the Air New Zealand's DC-10 going into Mount Erebus in the antarctic with 200 plus tourists. True story of Arctic 'whiteout'. One of the most interesting aircraft disaster stories that I've ever read. I have the New Zealand Gov't's Royal Commission of Inquiry into that crash too. They weren't too kind to Air NZ's hierarchy (whose fault it was of course) either. -- -Gord. |
#26
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Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
Marc Reeve wrote: WaltBJ wrote: One of Flight 19's Avengers was caught in a shrimper's net about halfway between Key West and Marco Island about 15 years ago. look on a map and see how lost that guy was. As for the Bermuda Triangle, I flew 102s and 104s all over the southern part of it and am still here. I think. Wooo - woo. Walt BJ Mel Fisher and crew brought that plane up in 1987. A serial number check showed that it was not one of the five planes lost with Flight 19. -Marc Did Mel display it in front of his museum like he wanted? Mark Don't know. The Mel Fisher Museum website makes no mention of it, and I have yet to travel to Florida to see for myself. -Marc -- Marc Reeve actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m |
#27
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robert arndt wrote:
"tim gueguen" wrote in message news:RD1Ib.866484$9l5.274956@pd7tw2no... "robert arndt" wrote in message om... (JDupre5762) wrote in message ... Where'd the planes come from that were shown at the beginning of the movie? Where are they now? And for a question not based on reality, why wasn't the desert winds blowing them around? The aliens didn't leave them tied down or chocked. Those were Navy TBM Avenger torpedo bombers that were supposed to represent the famous lost squadron of 5 TBMs that crashed in 1945 in the supposed Bermuda Triangle. The popular misconception is that the aircraft flew into some kind of "disturbance" and disappeared. The reality is that the flight leader became lost and disoriented and the aircraft ran out of gas at night in a storm. The lost squadron was "Flight 19" and the circumstances surrounding their disappearance has never been explained despite the above "simple explanation". None of the aircraft nor any sign of survival gear have ever been found. Right, because its hard to find a bunch of relatively small aircraft in a large area of ocean after the fact. But usually something like wreckage, debris, or floating bodies are found then or later. They NEVER found ANYTHING. The flight leader didn't just get lost, the entire flight lost all bearing on where they were and could not establish a way back to base. It was a training flight. Only the flight leader had any real navigation experience, and the other pilots relied on his direction. If he screwed up they were screwed. Not so as the leader was advised that turning west would be best. From his correct position in the north (he believed he was heading south) turning west would have taken the flight back over land. But the conditions stated below caused him to think otherwise so he declined and either headed straight north into the Atlantic or south into the Gulf of Mexico. The sky was reported as distorted, not making sense as well as time being lost. No, books written 3 decades later made that claim. Because those remarks were omitted from the "official" report. The flight leader could not determine position because they sky suddenly appeared to be blended and there was (at least in the mind of the flight leader) a loss of time. I don't in any way suggest alien abduction, nor necessarily the oft-claimed effects of the Triangle. But I do believe something other than "he simply got lost" is to blame. You can't use the big ocean excuse for not finding the planes. Deep See found a bunch of TBMs that they thought were Flight 19- turns out they weren't. If they sunk, they eventually will be found. If they disappeared, that's another story. And what about the other missing search plane too? Just coincidence? The History Channel ran one of their "History's Mysteries" specials on Flight 19 a few years ago. Their guy had the theory that they may have been blown farther north than they knew, and ended up coming down in the Okefenokee Swamp. Once there, they'd have sunk into the bog and never been seen again. Eventually, the acidic water would have eaten the planes and the pilots' bodies away. (Either that or one of the semi-frequent forest fires would have burned the wreckage away. Hey, I'm not making this up...) Of course, there's no way to really test this theory unless someone should happen to survey the Okefenokee with ground-penetrating radar. -Marc -- Marc Reeve actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m |
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