The ethanol nightmare has arrived!

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:1b3Mj.63697$TT4.62169@attbi_s22:

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

Diesel-electric locomotives are the norm in the US. Some of those
electric engines are decades old, and going strong. Not the same, I
know...but perhaps indicative of what electric technology *can* do.

We just watched "Who Killed the Electric Car" last night. I had never
seen GM's Saturn EV-1, and was dumbfounded to see the EXACT car I was
looking for (unsuccessfully) last fall. Man, I'd buy that car in a
heartbeat.

The **** you would.

A pathetic attempt to try and buy back some cred after the whupping you
just took.



Bertie

Jay Honeck wrote:
Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

Diesel-electric locomotives are the norm in the US. Some of those electric
engines are decades old, and going strong. Not the same, I know...but
perhaps indicative of what electric technology *can* do.

Diesel-electric locomotives run on diesel fuel, not electricity.

A big conventional diesel engine drives a conventional generator which
in turn powers electric motors.

Why don't they just drive the thing directly from the diesel engine?

The electric drive eliminates the need for a huge transmission.

--
Jim Pennino

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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

What, a 2,000 mile long electric system is down the road?

Where is there an electric train system 2000 miles long?

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

Not with an attitude like that there isn't!

Attitude has nothing to do with it, it is economics.

Who is going to pay to string up and maintain the overhead wires for
the 140,490 miles of freight railway in the US?


--
Jim Pennino

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Peter Clark wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:55:04 GMT, wrote:


LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Isn't the Amtrak Northeast corridor (DC to BOS) electrified?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...nj-transit.jpg

Amtrak isn't a freight hauler.

DC to BOS is about 350 miles.

LA to Chicago is about 1500 miles.


--
Jim Pennino

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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:e635d5-sen.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...

Avacados give a higher yield/acre then corn.

Unless the intent was to subsidize corn farmers, corn is
about
the worst thing one could pick.

--
Jim Pennino

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Bio diesel from seaweed...read an article an area the size of
Belgium would be sufficient to fuel all aircraft needs....

Well, that's discouraging since aircraft needs are a drop in the
bucket.


--
Jim Pennino

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Maybe, but we can run just about everything else on electricity...

You mean like trucks, trains, busses and farm and construction
equipment?


Electric trucks trains and busses have been around for ages. Farm
equipment? Why not?

LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.


Maybe not, but you can have long distance electric trains, no problem.

Other than the almost 150,000 miles of wires you would have to string,
no problem.

You sure aren't going to run them on batteries.

--
Jim Pennino

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"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in :

Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...

Avacados give a higher yield/acre then corn.

Unless the intent was to subsidize corn farmers, corn is about
the worst thing one could pick.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.


Bio diesel from seaweed...read an article an area the size of
Belgium would be sufficient to fuel all aircraft needs....

Well, that's discouraging since aircraft needs are a drop in the
bucket.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Maybe, but we can run just about everything else on electricity...

You mean like trucks, trains, busses and farm and construction
equipment?


Electric trucks trains and busses have been around for ages. Farm
equipment? Why not?

Bertie

A lot of stationary farm equipment is electric. As to a lot of the rest,
you'll know better if you think about it.

Peter

wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:1is5d5-uv9.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those
hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

What, a 2,000 mile long electric system is down the road?

Where is there an electric train system 2000 miles long?

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

Not with an attitude like that there isn't!

Attitude has nothing to do with it, it is economics.

Who is going to pay to string up and maintain the overhead wires for
the 140,490 miles of freight railway in the US?


Same people that pays for everything, you.

Bertie

wrote in news
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:s0h5d5-l06.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:e635d5-sen.ln1
@mail.specsol.com:

Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...

Avacados give a higher yield/acre then corn.

Unless the intent was to subsidize corn farmers, corn is
about
the worst thing one could pick.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.


Bio diesel from seaweed...read an article an area the size
of
Belgium would be sufficient to fuel all aircraft needs....

Well, that's discouraging since aircraft needs are a drop in
the
bucket.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Maybe, but we can run just about everything else on
electricity...

You mean like trucks, trains, busses and farm and construction
equipment?


Electric trucks trains and busses have been around for ages. Farm
equipment? Why not?

LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.


Maybe not, but you can have long distance electric trains, no
problem.

Other than the almost 150,000 miles of wires you would have to string,
no problem.

You sure aren't going to run them on batteries.


Who said anyone was?

Not much of an argument. Lionel can do it, surely amtrak can.


Bertie

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in
:

Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:

wrote in message
...

Avacados give a higher yield/acre then corn.

Unless the intent was to subsidize corn farmers, corn is about
the worst thing one could pick.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.


Bio diesel from seaweed...read an article an area the size of
Belgium would be sufficient to fuel all aircraft needs....

Well, that's discouraging since aircraft needs are a drop in the
bucket.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Maybe, but we can run just about everything else on electricity...

You mean like trucks, trains, busses and farm and construction
equipment?


Electric trucks trains and busses have been around for ages. Farm
equipment? Why not?

Bertie

A lot of stationary farm equipment is electric. As to a lot of the
rest, you'll know better if you think about it.


Well, i'm sitting and thinking about it and seeing as how one of the
methods of preventing compacting soil is to install little roadways for
the tractors, it should be a piece of cake.

in any case, we're sabout to see an explosion in battery technologies.
Not that any of it is that new. th eplastic batt principle has been
known for decades and is only now coming into its own, but electric
tractors? Sure..


Bertie


Bertie

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:45:03 GMT, wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:55:04 GMT, wrote:


LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Isn't the Amtrak Northeast corridor (DC to BOS) electrified?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...nj-transit.jpg

Amtrak isn't a freight hauler.

DC to BOS is about 350 miles.

LA to Chicago is about 1500 miles.

I wouldn't call 350 miles "local". I call local the Boston T or the
NY subway. The Cambridge overhead electrified bus lines. I think I
read something about electric busses starting to replace the old stock
in NY, BOS, and CHI. As for rail, the ability to add to the existing
intermediate haul segments of the system exists, and has for decades.
Still have to fuel the generators that power the overhead gantries, so
does it take less fuel to put it in each engine, or to run generators
to power overhead electrified lines in the absense of large scale
nuclear power generators to feed such a system?