Fun weekend buying an Arrow (long)

Grumman-581 wrote:
"Mike Spera" wrote in message ...
Opinions on this one vary. I leave the valve where it is and switch
after burning off about 5 gallons (climb to 2500' plus 10 minutes of
cruise).

For my first tank switch, I like to be over something that I wouldn't mind
landing on or at a high enough altitude that having the engine stop would
not be too exciting of an experience... Subsequent switches, I'm not as
paranoid about...


I took off from Marsh Harbour once in a Cherokee Six with the fuel selector on
the tank that I'd arrived on. About two minutes later I was gliding back down
waiting for the fuel tank I should have been on in the first place to start
supplying fuel to the engine. Stupid.

The Cherokee Six had four fuel tanks and lots of opportunities to run tanks dry.
I take off on the fullest tank now, no matter which one I arrived on. As for
where I switch tanks, it's more when than where. I don't particularly care
where I am as long as I have sky under me. Cherokees aren't known for their
superior glide characteristics.... or quick restarts.

C-210s... now they restart quick! They all should do as well.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:14:17 GMT, "Grumman-581"
wrote:

"Mike Spera" wrote in message ...
Opinions on this one vary. I leave the valve where it is and switch
after burning off about 5 gallons (climb to 2500' plus 10 minutes of
cruise).

For my first tank switch, I like to be over something that I wouldn't mind
landing on or at a high enough altitude that having the engine stop would
not be too exciting of an experience... Subsequent switches, I'm not as
paranoid about...


I takeoff on the tank I did the runup on.

Mike Spera wrote:
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".

I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Easy for you, George. The Archer doesn't have that position on the valve
:-(

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:beF7e.5519$4v3.1682@trndny03...
Mike Spera wrote:
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".

I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:beF7e.5519$4v3.1682@trndny03...
Mike Spera wrote:
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".

I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Some of us don't have that option.

George Patterson wrote:
Mike Spera wrote:
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".

I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.


PA-32s and C-402s lack that ability, among many others. In fact, on the C-402
if you chose to take off on the aux tanks first, you just blew fuel overboard.
You had to create room in the mains for the fuel. The mains fed the engines.
The aux fed the mains. Therefore you take off on the mains and fly for an hour.
THEN you switch to the aux and fly for another 35 minutes or so, then switch
back to the mains for the rest of the flight.

Both? Must be talking about Cessna.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Well, their point is that, by changing from the setting you flew in on,
you may introduce the possibility of failure. Namely, if you fly in on
the left tank and take off on both, the water in the right tank may ruin
your day. Also, if the fuel selector malfunctions, you may be between
settings and have "neither". I am not familiar with the specific designs
of these valves, so this may not be an issue. Anyway, many of us dont't
have a "both" setting. So, that introduces other possible failures like
the tank you switched to is empty.

Thanks for pointing out the "both" setting. As I said, some of us don't
have one.

As I said, opinions on this one vary greatly.

Good luck
Mike

Mike Spera wrote:

One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".


I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.



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George Patterson wrote:
Mike Spera wrote:

One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on".


I take off on "both." If either one works, I have gas.

Doesn't that also mean that if one of the tanks is contaminated, you're going to
draw the contamination into the engine, with no option of switching to a good
tank (or, at least, you don't know which tank to switch to).

"Mike Spera" wrote in message
...
Well, their point is that, by changing from the setting you flew in on,
you may introduce the possibility of failure. Namely, if you fly in on the
left tank and take off on both, the water in the right tank may ruin your
day.

True. But how often does an engine fail due to fuel exhaustion, versus fuel
contamination? Seems like procedure should take into account the most
common failure mode.

Also, consider that on most flights, you would have had a chance to use both
tanks. By the time of your second departure, you should know whether either
tank is contaminated.

A corallary to all of the above is that if the flight was too short to check
both tanks, it was probably also too short for a fuel shortage to be a
problem. So, one could rationally worry more about contamination after a
second departure following a very short flight.

Also, if the fuel selector malfunctions, you may be between settings and
have "neither".

Better for that to happen on the ground than in the air, right?

Pete

One helpful point:

When changing fuel tanks, keep your hand on the fuel selector valve for
about 30 more seconds and monitor the fuel pressure gauge.

If the fuel pressure drops or the engine quits your hand will already be on
the valve to re-select the good tank.

In my childhood I flew a Beaver amphibian out of King Salmon. The procedure
to maximize the available fuel was to run the tanks dry from the rear to the
front. A beaver has fuel in the belly in two tanks (a bad place and most
Beaver crashes involve fire.)
I could rest my hand on the fuel selector valve and watch the fuel pressure
gauge. Once the fuel pressure just started to drop the tank could be
switched quickly without the engine quitting.



Karl
"Curator"
N185KG