"Priceless" in Afghanistan

Brian- BRBR


Are you in Russia???
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

The
B-1 is a remarkable bird but it has to fly. Going straight up takes it
into
an area it's not designed to operate at. This is one bird I wouldn't want
to be within 10 miles if it were to stall with less than 20,000 feet
involved.

As he said, for a short period of time. Start with a 500 kt pass pull
to the vertical, unload a bit and recover when airspeed reaches that
point below you don't want to go. Thrust to weight limits would apply
should you wish to accelerate vertically (or start at zero airspeed
There may be some other reason that a bone can't go vertical for a bit
but it's not lack of energy.

Pugs

good info can be found here

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-1b.htm

How about structural. As I said, it has to fly. Fighters and Missiles go
straight up. The B-1 is Fuge. The larger the bird, the less structural
punishment it can take. When the fighter goes vertical, it's airframe can
handle the pressures. Now, put enough thrust for it do sustain it more than
a few seconds and not stall then chances are, something will break.

I'm with Pugs on this one. The Bone will go verticle. It should be able to do a
lovely Nuke toss (1/2 cuban eight) which I'll bet the next round it was
designed to do. I have read that if you max it out with bombs it can't take off
with full fuel and gets topped off when airborne. But Yes I'm sure some Natops
type in the AF said the verticl is too scary for the averege guy. It could all
be done at 3 g's and push over at 0 g or less if that is what it takes but it
could handle the stree maybe not the stick actuator (pilot).
Sparky

One reason Bones can not maintain a "near vertical" climb is that its
systems are not rated for sustained zero or negative G's for extended
periods of time. B-1B's can start a near vertical climb from over 550 KEAS.
From that speed they can maintain a near vertical climb long enough to trash
its engines due to lack of oil pressure. You will never see a Bone do an
extended inverted pass at an airshow!

You might be suprised that most of the tactical navy aircraft are limited to 10
seconds at 0 g and 30 seconds at negative g.
For an airshow that is more than enough to impress the crowd. However the blues
have unlimited neg g with no burner. If you light the burner in negative G it
will get real quiet as the engines quit. They did that stunt the first winter
practice. The solo "forgot" about the burner limit.
Sparky



Power to weight.

Maximum Takeoff Weight: 477,000 pounds (216,634 kilograms)
Weight: Empty, approximately 190,000 pounds (86,183 kilograms)
Thrust: 30,000-plus pounds with afterburner, per engine/120,000 plus
pounds
total thrust

Empty weight still exceeds the engine thrust. Add fuel, Hydralic
fluid,
water, etc. and it's weight would be about twice what it's thrust is.
The
B-1 is a remarkable bird but it has to fly. Going straight up takes
it
into
an area it's not designed to operate at. This is one bird I wouldn't
want
to be within 10 miles if it were to stall with less than 20,000 feet
involved.

As he said, for a short period of time. Start with a 500 kt pass pull
to the vertical, unload a bit and recover when airspeed reaches that
point below you don't want to go. Thrust to weight limits would apply
should you wish to accelerate vertically (or start at zero airspeed
There may be some other reason that a bone can't go vertical for a bit
but it's not lack of energy.

How about structural. As I said, it has to fly. Fighters and Missiles go
straight up. The B-1 is Fuge. The larger the bird, the less structural
punishment it can take. When the fighter goes vertical, it's airframe can
handle the pressures. Now, put enough thrust for it do sustain it more
than
a few seconds and not stall then chances are, something will break.

"David Casey" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:10:20 -0500, Allen Epps wrote in

May I introduce David Casey. He wants to join the Air National Guard in NM
but can't get the waiver. He's part of a group that still attempts to take
over certain areas on the usenets with this BS. He's part of the so called
404th that infests the us.* areas. Just ignore the idiot and press on.

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:44:04 GMT,
"Gord Beaman" ) "Gord Beaman" )
attempted to say .....

"Admin" wrote:

The fact remains that the B-1B is not designed for
a 90 degree vertical unless you like smacking the ground and spreading
yourself over a country mile.



Don't let's get all silly here...we're talking generalities and
I think most posters here seem to think (me too) that any a/c can
go vertical if even for a short time. There may be some with
particular reasons why they can't but in general they all can.

This makes sense to me. And as Judge Judy says "If it makes sense
to me then it's true!"

The B52 wasn't designed for low level penetration operations.

But then those SAC crews must have been wrong all those years for
practicing it....

Just what do you know about the B-52? You are an Army Guard. Let me
introduce another of the us.military.army 404k00ks.

" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Tank Fixer" wrote in
message
k.net
In article ,
on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 05:22:23 -0600,
"Duke of URL" macbenahATkdsiDOTnet "Duke of URL"
macbenahATkdsiDOTnet attempted to say .....

In ,
redc1c4 radiated into
the
WorldWideWait:
Tank Fixer wrote:

Bob Hover,
Boeing 727,
Loop.

Alvin M. "Tex" Johnston
707
Barrel Roll

All pilots
Any airplane
Stark raving lunatics


Just those who jump out of the perfectly good ones are
lunitics.

Any plane captain will tell you there's no such thing as a
perfectly good airplane.

And here is the 404k00k with the 5 purple hearts and not even a Bronze to go
with them. He used to post as his first name of Syndey. Hope you don't
mind if I don't leave the k00ks area in the address.

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
"Admin" wrote:


"Tosser" wrote in message
...

"Admin" wrote in message
...


Why can't a B-1 go straight up (for however short a time)?...if
it can do a 60 deg attitude then are you telling us that it
cannot go another 30 deg?....why not?...


Power to weight.


According to the story, all that mass was going *supersonic*, FFS.


You don't lose that amount of inertia in the blink of an eye .....

No but going completely vertical at the blink of an eye, you do lose your
wings.


WTF does that mean?...you didn't go to 60 degrees instantly did
you?...why must you go to 90 instantly?...

I just like to have two good wings on any AC I happen to be on at the time.
There is enough escapes on the B-1 but not on all AC. But I guess we need
to be overtaxing our Airframes on a daily basis so we can test them out once
in awhile.

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
"Tosser" wrote:


"Admin" wrote in message
...


Why can't a B-1 go straight up (for however short a time)?...if
it can do a 60 deg attitude then are you telling us that it
cannot go another 30 deg?....why not?...


Power to weight.


According to the story, all that mass was going *supersonic*, FFS.


You don't lose that amount of inertia in the blink of an eye .....



What ARE you talking about?...

He's talking about flight. Something you don't know too much about.

"Admin" wrote in message
...

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:44:04 GMT,
"Gord Beaman" ) "Gord Beaman" )
attempted to say .....

"Admin" wrote:

The fact remains that the B-1B is not designed for
a 90 degree vertical unless you like smacking the ground and
spreading
yourself over a country mile.



Don't let's get all silly here...we're talking generalities and
I think most posters here seem to think (me too) that any a/c can
go vertical if even for a short time. There may be some with
particular reasons why they can't but in general they all can.

This makes sense to me. And as Judge Judy says "If it makes sense
to me then it's true!"

The B52 wasn't designed for low level penetration operations.

But then those SAC crews must have been wrong all those years for
practicing it....

Just what do you know about the B-52? You are an Army Guard. Let me
introduce another of the us.military.army 404k00ks.

In a Red Flag years back, a friend of mine flying a TARPS hop at 500 AGL and
480 knots had a B-52 fly *under* him on his way to a target. At least that
was his story. I'd call that
low-level.

__!_!__
Gizmo