IImorrow 2001 GPS IFR Cert

The flying club that I am in just purchased a second 172, a really nice
plane, new interior and paint and a nearly new STCd 180hp engine.
Anyway, it has a IImorrow (or Apollo?) 2001 NMS GPS installed. It is
not IFR certified, but pages I've found about it online seem to indicate
that it can be. Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between
a certified and non certified install (other than $$$)? What would be
necessary to make it certified for IFR operations?

To get a quick idea of the potential cost go out to an open part of the
airport away from buildings and get the plane set up just like you would
be flying it, everything turned on, all the avionics on, GPS on and
booted up, etc. Tune up 121.5 on your comm and hold down the PTT for 20
seconds, no need to say anything. If at any time your GPS flags then
you're in for some expense. There are about 10-12 freqs that your
avionics guy will have to do this test on, 121.5 is one of them. A GPS
flag is not allowed on any of them, if it does then things will have to
be rearranged until it doesn't flag. Might be as simple as a filter on
the GPS coax. Might be as expensive as new comm antennas, moving
antennas, etc. Guy on the field here spent over $3K just to pass this
one test.




Matt Young wrote:
The flying club that I am in just purchased a second 172, a really nice
plane, new interior and paint and a nearly new STCd 180hp engine.
Anyway, it has a IImorrow (or Apollo?) 2001 NMS GPS installed. It is
not IFR certified, but pages I've found about it online seem to indicate
that it can be. Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between
a certified and non certified install (other than $$$)? What would be
necessary to make it certified for IFR operations?

GPS on and booted up, etc. Tune up 121.5 on your comm and hold down the PTT for 20 seconds, no need to say anything.

Don't forget to make appropriate arrangements and do this in an
appropriate time frame. I think it's five minutes before the hour for
testing, but I'm not sure. Look it up before you actually do it.

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Matt Young wrote:

The flying club that I am in just purchased a second 172, a really nice
plane, new interior and paint and a nearly new STCd 180hp engine.
Anyway, it has a IImorrow (or Apollo?) 2001 NMS GPS installed. It is
not IFR certified, but pages I've found about it online seem to indicate
that it can be. Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between
a certified and non certified install (other than $$$)? What would be
necessary to make it certified for IFR operations?

In addition to the frequency tests mention, the GPS has to display on an
external CDI, there has to be a switch and annunicator to change that
external CDI from VOR/LOC to GPS, and some installations require an external
annunicator for Approach Mode.

wrote in message ...
In addition to the frequency tests mention, the GPS has to display on an
external CDI, there has to be a switch and annunicator to change that
external CDI from VOR/LOC to GPS, and some installations require an
external
annunicator for Approach Mode.



I apologize if this changes the subject a little, but I'm wondering
about something related to your comment.
I'm planning a panel for my Experimental (RV7), and it will have the
Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS display. For radios, there will be both the GNS-430
GPS and the SL-30 Nav/Com.
The interesting part about the setup is that both radios can be switched
to display and drive the HITS on the EFIS (if I understand the specs
correctly).
So, the question is: Is a HITS display driven by either a certified GPS
or a certified NAV signal a "legal" equivilant for a separate CDI
instrument?

MJC

121.5 is not one of the frequencies called out in advisory circular
AC20-138A. If any frequency interferes then there is a problem, but the AC
and the install docs call out the other frequencies to test on.

As someone else said, it requires a CDI and annunciation. A CDI may be
available with the annunciation internal to it and if that is only connected
to the GPS would need no switching to be shared with VOR/LOC/GS. I think it
may also require a serial input for altitude coding, rather than simply the
gray code out of the average altitude digitizer. Plus jumping through the
FSDO hoops to get a flight manual supplement approved.


"Newps" wrote in message
...
To get a quick idea of the potential cost go out to an open part of the
airport away from buildings and get the plane set up just like you would
be flying it, everything turned on, all the avionics on, GPS on and
booted up, etc. Tune up 121.5 on your comm and hold down the PTT for 20
seconds, no need to say anything. If at any time your GPS flags then
you're in for some expense. There are about 10-12 freqs that your
avionics guy will have to do this test on, 121.5 is one of them. A GPS
flag is not allowed on any of them, if it does then things will have to
be rearranged until it doesn't flag. Might be as simple as a filter on
the GPS coax. Might be as expensive as new comm antennas, moving
antennas, etc. Guy on the field here spent over $3K just to pass this
one test.




Matt Young wrote:
The flying club that I am in just purchased a second 172, a really nice
plane, new interior and paint and a nearly new STCd 180hp engine.
Anyway, it has a IImorrow (or Apollo?) 2001 NMS GPS installed. It is
not IFR certified, but pages I've found about it online seem to indicate
that it can be. Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between
a certified and non certified install (other than $$$)? What would be
necessary to make it certified for IFR operations?

Jose wrote:
GPS on and booted up, etc. Tune up 121.5 on your comm and hold down
the PTT for 20 seconds, no need to say anything.


Don't forget to make appropriate arrangements and do this in an
appropriate time frame. I think it's five minutes before the hour for
testing, but I'm not sure. Look it up before you actually do it.



You're thinking of ELT tests. There is no defined test period for this.

MJC wrote:

wrote in message ...
In addition to the frequency tests mention, the GPS has to display on an
external CDI, there has to be a switch and annunicator to change that
external CDI from VOR/LOC to GPS, and some installations require an
external
annunicator for Approach Mode.



I apologize if this changes the subject a little, but I'm wondering
about something related to your comment.
I'm planning a panel for my Experimental (RV7), and it will have the
Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS display. For radios, there will be both the GNS-430
GPS and the SL-30 Nav/Com.
The interesting part about the setup is that both radios can be switched
to display and drive the HITS on the EFIS (if I understand the specs
correctly).
So, the question is: Is a HITS display driven by either a certified GPS
or a certified NAV signal a "legal" equivilant for a separate CDI
instrument?

MJC

You would have to ask an avionics guru that onel

"MJC" wrote in :

wrote in message
...
In addition to the frequency tests mention, the GPS has to display on
an external CDI, there has to be a switch and annunicator to change
that external CDI from VOR/LOC to GPS, and some installations require
an
external
annunicator for Approach Mode.



I apologize if this changes the subject a little, but I'm
wondering
about something related to your comment.
I'm planning a panel for my Experimental (RV7), and it will have
the
Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS display. For radios, there will be both the
GNS-430 GPS and the SL-30 Nav/Com.
The interesting part about the setup is that both radios can be
switched
to display and drive the HITS on the EFIS (if I understand the specs
correctly).
So, the question is: Is a HITS display driven by either a
certified GPS
or a certified NAV signal a "legal" equivilant for a separate CDI
instrument?

MJC



The CDI needs to be seperate from the display on the GPS box. It can be
switched between GPS and VOR/ILS. Every IFR GPS installation that I have
ever seen in an airplane with an HSI switches the HSI between the GPS and
the VOR/ILS. Note: a while ago (I can't define "a while") there was a
requirement that if the HSI (or CDI) was displaying the GPS info, it
would automatically be switched to the NAV radio when the NAV was tuned
to a localizer frequency. This is no longer a requirement. My
installation is not set up that way.

Thanks for clarifying that, L.R.
I guess that means I need to add a 106A that will work with both my
300XL GPS and the SL 30, but my budget for the panel is already broke anyway
so that shouldn't be a major problem.

MJC

"L. R. Diu Broff" wrote in message
...
"MJC" wrote in :

wrote in message
...
In addition to the frequency tests mention, the GPS has to display on
an external CDI, there has to be a switch and annunicator to change
that external CDI from VOR/LOC to GPS, and some installations require
an
external
annunicator for Approach Mode.



I apologize if this changes the subject a little, but I'm
wondering
about something related to your comment.
I'm planning a panel for my Experimental (RV7), and it will have
the
Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS display. For radios, there will be both the
GNS-430 GPS and the SL-30 Nav/Com.
The interesting part about the setup is that both radios can be
switched
to display and drive the HITS on the EFIS (if I understand the specs
correctly).
So, the question is: Is a HITS display driven by either a
certified GPS
or a certified NAV signal a "legal" equivilant for a separate CDI
instrument?

MJC



The CDI needs to be seperate from the display on the GPS box. It can be
switched between GPS and VOR/ILS. Every IFR GPS installation that I have
ever seen in an airplane with an HSI switches the HSI between the GPS and
the VOR/ILS. Note: a while ago (I can't define "a while") there was a
requirement that if the HSI (or CDI) was displaying the GPS info, it
would automatically be switched to the NAV radio when the NAV was tuned
to a localizer frequency. This is no longer a requirement. My
installation is not set up that way.