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  #181  
Old October 5th 03, 08:49 PM
lisieux
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"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...
In message , Steyr
writes
I spoke to some Brits in North Belfast last year and they told us
that their new
rifle was 'complete crap'. I think they were detached from a field gun
formation, possibbly Royal Artillery. The Welch Fusilers were in the same area.


Spoke to a colour-sergeant from the Royal Irish Rangers a few days ago
and he said the L85A2 was, quote, "****ing fantastic as long as you look
after it". While like any weapon it's less tolerant of neglect than an
AK, it shoots much better and is very reliable with basic (and correct)
care.

He'd been out using it for real, I assume he had some knowledge of the
subject.

I have no opinion on the SA80 matter other than to note that I've
not actually encountered a favourable review of the weapon from a serving
soldier.


Talk to a few who have used it. It's interesting how the "it's crap and
we hate it" mindset of the early 1990s has changed among soldiers who
have (a) used it on operations, (b) seen other weapons used on
operations.


A group of British soldiers spoke to an American lady about the crisis
in North Belfast, I was standing next to the group, I asked the
soldier holding the eapon what he thought of it, he said it was
"crap".

He then remarked to the American lady that he thought her soldiers had
a real rifle. His coleagues who ere living out of a Saxon vehicle
agreed with the soldier doing the talking.

'I have no opinion on the SA80 matter other than to note that I've not
actually encountered a favourable review of the weapon from a serving
soldier'

As I'm unlikely ever to use one, I've no personal opinion on the
matter other than it looks like a ergonomic copy of a 1949 rifle the
British contemplated adopting. I'd sooner have a Martini-Henry Mark
IV.

'So, Brits had to adopt another design, but this is also another
story. There's also some rumors that infamous British SA80 / L85
assault rifle, introduced in 1980s, was based on the EM-2 design. It
is not true, since the crappy L85 has nothing in common with EM-2
except for general external "bullpup" layout.'

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm
  #182  
Old October 5th 03, 10:24 PM
Blair Maynard
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Hash: SHA1


"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message
...
Blair Maynard wrote:

I see the picture. It shows two guys kneeling next to a small hole where

it
looks like they might have dug a hole (presumably looking for another

mine).
There is a small blackened area on the left side of the photo in front

of
them. The blackened area is cut off by the left side of the photo, so I
can't see how big it is. There is white tape behind them presumably
designating a safe approach to the area. The photo is too close for me

to
see a crater. A pic of the jeep would help.

I don't understand that last comment about trusting the battalion

commander
and contingent commander. I never questioned their judgement. What is

your
point? How is this relevant?

Are you saying that they would have disobeyed their orders to go to
Afghanistan if they thought armored hummvees would save lives?


No. They are the ones who ordered the patrol in a soft-skinned vehicle
when they had LAV variants available. They would have weighed the
risks carefully and judged this sort of patrol warranted under the
circumstances.
--


Right. These things happen. Soldiers use what they have, which is usually
dictated by what their governments are willing to buy.
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  #183  
Old October 6th 03, 02:21 AM
Peter Stickney
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In article ,
"Gord Beaman" ) writes:
"Andrew Chaplin" wrote:

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...

The odd thing about this is that the Ferrets in question are quite a
bit larger than Dingoes.


Aren't they larger than dingoes but smaller than Dingoes?


Good one Andrew!...


And, as it turns out, accurate as well. FOr some reason, I'd alwauys
thought that the Daimler Dingo was smaller than the Ferret. Turns out
that the Dingo has a couple of tons on it. I've got to get some of
those newfangled Disk Brains - the Drum Brains fade with repeated use.

Now, I could tell you about the M8 Grayhound we had for a short
while. We tried to register it as a 1943 Ford Convertible, color
Green.
--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
  #184  
Old October 6th 03, 08:46 PM
Paul J. Adam
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In message , lisieux
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
Talk to a few who have used it. It's interesting how the "it's crap and
we hate it" mindset of the early 1990s has changed among soldiers who
have (a) used it on operations, (b) seen other weapons used on
operations.


A group of British soldiers spoke to an American lady about the crisis
in North Belfast, I was standing next to the group, I asked the
soldier holding the eapon what he thought of it, he said it was
"crap".


Had he used it in combat and seen how other forces' weapons performed?

He then remarked to the American lady that he thought her soldiers had
a real rifle. His coleagues who ere living out of a Saxon vehicle
agreed with the soldier doing the talking.


An opinion not entirely shared by UK troops currently returning from
Afghanistan and Iraq. The US has a serviceable and proven weapon but it
hasn't proven to be fault-free or perfect either.

Again, I'd be curious about the experience of the troops involved. My
most recent contact was with sergeants, colour-sergeants and WO2s
recently returned from operational deployments where they had used their
rifles in action; and they were solidly positive (and in a few cases
rueful that they'd bitched so much in the past)

'I have no opinion on the SA80 matter other than to note that I've not
actually encountered a favourable review of the weapon from a serving
soldier'


Try asking a few more, especially those who have been deployed
operationally.

As I'm unlikely ever to use one, I've no personal opinion on the
matter other than it looks like a ergonomic copy of a 1949 rifle the
British contemplated adopting. I'd sooner have a Martini-Henry Mark
IV.


Your loss: you gain stopping power but lose range and rate of fire. How
well do you shoot and reload with 5.56mm ball through your torso?

'So, Brits had to adopt another design, but this is also another
story. There's also some rumors that infamous British SA80 / L85
assault rifle, introduced in 1980s, was based on the EM-2 design. It
is not true, since the crappy L85 has nothing in common with EM-2
except for general external "bullpup" layout.'

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm


I think the wording is its own evidence as to veracity, don't you?



--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk
  #185  
Old October 7th 03, 08:13 AM
Tony Williams
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"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...
In message , lisieux
writes

'So, Brits had to adopt another design, but this is also another
story. There's also some rumors that infamous British SA80 / L85
assault rifle, introduced in 1980s, was based on the EM-2 design. It
is not true, since the crappy L85 has nothing in common with EM-2
except for general external "bullpup" layout.'

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm


I think the wording is its own evidence as to veracity, don't you?


I'll have to have a word with Max about that I suspect that he
wrote it before the successful use of the L85A2 in Iraq.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
  #186  
Old October 8th 03, 03:32 AM
lisieux
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Default

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...


'So, Brits had to adopt another design, but this is also another
story. There's also some rumors that infamous British SA80 / L85
assault rifle, introduced in 1980s, was based on the EM-2 design. It
is not true, since the crappy L85 has nothing in common with EM-2
except for general external "bullpup" layout.'

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm


I think the wording is its own evidence as to veracity, don't you?


The earlier British rifle was potentially a better development
product, the 5.56 round was not really the answer and neither was the
7.62 NATO.
 




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