Att Dave K

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
| Dave,
|
| My other son is off with the Air Force, we dont comment on his
| operational issues, due to security nowdays.. im sure you understand.
|
| Anyone in the military service if smart, doesnt comment on operational
| issues outside the workplace as such.
|
| Just to inform you..i am a ex RAAF Mirage pilot from the 70s, and with
| my other son, we both use this internet debate forum nowdays.
|
| We also forward on my other sons emails in whatever form he chooses,
| from his time off work.
|
| So what is your problem?
|
| Please enlighten us... we all would like to know what your have against
| my son...
|
| Thanks
|
| Andrew and Jeff
|



Hello Andrew or Jeff.


This is the first time that we (or at least I) have had any real indication
that there is more than one person using the name 'Aerophotos'
For years we have seen his posts from your email address under the name
'Jolly Green Giant' At best, some of his posts are without tact,
at worst, they were offensive and racist (not all - but a large proportion).


I've noticed the difference in writing style and content over the last few
posts, compared to the last 3 years of posts that I've seen coming from
your email address. I apologise for mistakenly directing invective
in your direction.


If you're truly unaware of the nature of the posts that exist in Usenet that
are from your email address, I strongly suggest you use 'Google groups
search' to look through all 'Aerophotos' posts on r.a.m for the last 3
years or so.


I used the term 'special' in a facetious way and not seriously implying that
your son is retarded. He has few friends on Usenet that I can see,
few people post in support of his unique beliefs - which are his right to
say, thanks to servicemen such as yourself and the others who also took
offence to _many_ of your son's political statements. He is
entitled to believe them and say what he believes - but my belief is that
he says a lot of them to get attention or stir up trouble - within the
safety of Internet anonymity.


One of the aspects of free speech are also the consequences of saying
what's on your mind. In response to some of your son's inflammatory
posts - and at times offensive material, are the reactions to his
appearance on usenet.



After one series of posts where your son accused a certain ethnic group
(predominant in Sydney's western suburbs) of being all rapists and murders,
I sent him a private email with a suggestion that he tone it down a little.
A simple search of the internet found enough personal info to identify what
I presume is your house and (I presume) your wife's mobile number. I
pointed out that if I could find him that easily, then it was possible that
some of the individuals that he was slagging off, could do the same.



This worked for a month or so, then he returned as if nothing had happened.



Shortly after this, there was a brief move by one of the other posters to
track your son down and clean his clock. As this was a scary turn
and as I was the only person who had admitted that I knew how to find him,
I led the movement to leave him alone and preserve the insulation of the
Internet email system.


I promise to be more circumspect with responses to you in the future,
possibly using your Christian names at the bottom of your posts would elicit
a better response from your friends around the world.


I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to r.a.m. where I know this
discussion will shed light where only heat has been generated in the past.



I remain respectfully


Dave Kearton

Hi Dave

This reply from you is news to me. Some of these comments you make sound
very critical of my son.

I dont like some of your email's tone and language tho.

I will reply as fit below addressing the points you made.

I could say the same about some people i work with in life everyday, but
then maybe i am wiser and smarter then you.

I keep my mouth closed sometimes, i just accept life as it is. Not all
people are nice and polite as you hope. You avoid these types, if smart
and alert.

As his father, i can tell you all, he like you and many other
posters/writers on the newsgroups i have seen lately, have a right to
express whatever the person wishes.

It is a debate/forum area in effect, many people world over, post
absolute goldmine of information. Other hand some other post vile and
rude emails. So be it.

Its called freedom and democratic right. I was taught that in my time in
the Australian Defence Force. I served to give people freedom as did
many others.

Have you ever served in a military job?

I suspect if people dont like what they see, a VERY simple solution is
to tune out, not read or just block the incoming messages they dont
like.

(My sons have taught me how to block things online quite handy i
think )


We do and as such... we have many filters on our emails.


Next issue.. moving on....

The individual you mentioned as stalking us was, was rather violent i
will unfortunately admit. Due to legal issues i can not name him.

He gave us all a nasty scare and was harassing us for a long time.
I found this out by phone messages and having to deal with this abusive
and threatening person face to face one night.

After been threatened by him, we went to police and had some charges
laid against him.
We met him again in court and we had a AVO placed on this person.

Sadly this person I found apon the court session, was a serving Air
Force member much to my disgust. It was found out in court proceedings
that he had been sending emails back and forth with my other son.

My family are not pleased with this at all i have to say. We trust this
sick person will never bother us again. We also laid a complaint with
the RAAF against this person. We are still awaiting a outcome on this.

My son who is now in Air Force is a direct honest and very bright young
man.

I will agree tho how he presents himself in writing at times may lead
some to believe otherwise.

He has never used any form of manners in emails i saw he send his
friends or mates before he left for the RAAF.

He just writes directly and doesn't care how it comes out. Im sure
anyone who interacted with him on this forum can agree.

I am only finding out now tho rather lately what was online, as i get
older i use a computer more.

I as you have seen lately, use a more constructed and understanding ways
to converse with people as does the other son, Jeff.

My wife has served in legal positions in past jobs and i will show her
your email later tonight....and see what she thinks also of this
news....

Yours truly and thanks for insight,

Jeff



Dave Kearton wrote:

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
| Dave,
|
| My other son is off with the Air Force, we dont comment on his
| operational issues, due to security nowdays.. im sure you understand.
|
| Anyone in the military service if smart, doesnt comment on operational
| issues outside the workplace as such.
|
| Just to inform you..i am a ex RAAF Mirage pilot from the 70s, and with
| my other son, we both use this internet debate forum nowdays.
|
| We also forward on my other sons emails in whatever form he chooses,
| from his time off work.
|
| So what is your problem?
|
| Please enlighten us... we all would like to know what your have against
| my son...
|
| Thanks
|
| Andrew and Jeff
|

Hello Andrew or Jeff.

This is the first time that we (or at least I) have had any real indication
that there is more than one person using the name 'Aerophotos'
For years we have seen his posts from your email address under the name
'Jolly Green Giant' At best, some of his posts are without tact,
at worst, they were offensive and racist (not all - but a large proportion).

I've noticed the difference in writing style and content over the last few
posts, compared to the last 3 years of posts that I've seen coming from
your email address. I apologise for mistakenly directing invective
in your direction.

If you're truly unaware of the nature of the posts that exist in Usenet that
are from your email address, I strongly suggest you use 'Google groups
search' to look through all 'Aerophotos' posts on r.a.m for the last 3
years or so.

I used the term 'special' in a facetious way and not seriously implying that
your son is retarded. He has few friends on Usenet that I can see,
few people post in support of his unique beliefs - which are his right to
say, thanks to servicemen such as yourself and the others who also took
offence to _many_ of your son's political statements. He is
entitled to believe them and say what he believes - but my belief is that
he says a lot of them to get attention or stir up trouble - within the
safety of Internet anonymity.

One of the aspects of free speech are also the consequences of saying
what's on your mind. In response to some of your son's inflammatory
posts - and at times offensive material, are the reactions to his
appearance on usenet.

After one series of posts where your son accused a certain ethnic group
(predominant in Sydney's western suburbs) of being all rapists and murders,
I sent him a private email with a suggestion that he tone it down a little.
A simple search of the internet found enough personal info to identify what
I presume is your house and (I presume) your wife's mobile number. I
pointed out that if I could find him that easily, then it was possible that
some of the individuals that he was slagging off, could do the same.

This worked for a month or so, then he returned as if nothing had happened.

Shortly after this, there was a brief move by one of the other posters to
track your son down and clean his clock. As this was a scary turn
and as I was the only person who had admitted that I knew how to find him,
I led the movement to leave him alone and preserve the insulation of the
Internet email system.

I promise to be more circumspect with responses to you in the future,
possibly using your Christian names at the bottom of your posts would elicit
a better response from your friends around the world.

I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to r.a.m. where I know this
discussion will shed light where only heat has been generated in the past.

I remain respectfully

Dave Kearton

Without getting into the politics of all this, I will just say that the laws
of libel in Australia certainly apply whatever the medium.

In other words, despite what some people say about the Internet being a
free-for-all, if you post a libellous message here on Usenet, you can be
prosecuted here in Australia if you reside in Australia.

The same applies for racism and anti-discrimination laws, which, although
State-based, are fairly universal across Australia.

Posting a message on Usenet is the same as putting an ad in a newspaper.
Your son may interested to know that.

Nick

Reading the Dad and Dave saga perhaps the suggestion marked with ** would
he;help the special circumstances said to be involved in this matter .
"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
Hi Dave

This reply from you is news to me. Some of these comments you make sound
very critical of my son.
** This is the first time you have read emails or newsgroups
emanating from this address right ?


I dont like some of your email's tone and language tho.

** Tho. ?? A Seeventies era Mirage driver says "tho."
I will reply as fit below addressing the points you made.

I could say the same about some people i work with in life everyday, but
then maybe i am wiser and smarter then you.
** possibly your point in this contect is what exactly sir ?

I keep my mouth closed sometimes, i just accept life as it is. Not all
people are nice and polite as you hope. You avoid these types, if smart
and alert.

** Sadly I am one of those not so polite and nice ones of which you speak.
I am cynicle and suspicious , sir.

As his father, i can tell you all, he like you and many other
posters/writers on the newsgroups i have seen lately, have a right to
express whatever the person wishes.
** Agreed and here is one up front in your face post ,sir.

It is a debate/forum area in effect, many people world over, post
absolute goldmine of information. Other hand some other post vile and
rude emails. So be it.
** Ever been to Kalgoolie ? Its an absolute gold mine .

Its called freedom and democratic right. I was taught that in my time in
the Australian Defence Force. I served to give people freedom as did
many others.

** In my time within the ADF integrity and gentlemanly behaviour was also
taught.
Along with weed out the misfits . Less they kill the gentlemen .

Have you ever served in a military job?
** possibly 1 or 2 grin


I suspect if people dont like what they see, a VERY simple solution is
to tune out, not read or just block the incoming messages they dont
like.

** Perhaps and agree with the logic.However, when one takes on the family
of General Cosgrove its bound to get every ones attention, sir.

(My sons have taught me how to block things online quite handy i
think )

** heres a tip for you knuck --
http://ihug.com.au/joinus/index.html
notice the ten email addresses !!

We do and as such... we have many filters on our emails.
** Incoming or outgoing ??


Next issue.. moving on....
*Snip.

My son who is now in Air Force is a direct honest and very bright young
man.

**Is this the infamous JGG AKA Aerophotos ?
yes or no . asked only because he posted on many newsgroups then went
stum .
I will agree tho how he presents himself in writing at times may lead
some to believe otherwise.
** Speechless

He has never used any form of manners in emails i saw he send his
friends or mates before he left for the RAAF.

He just writes directly and doesn't care how it comes out. Im sure
anyone who interacted with him on this forum can agree.

** This one does not , sir.
I am only finding out now tho rather lately what was online, as i get
older i use a computer more.
** There is that like son like father writing style . You Tasmanian ??
If so you would know more than one Mirage driver from that state in the
70's
sir .

I as you have seen lately, use a more constructed and understanding ways
to converse with people as does the other son, Jeff.
*** jeff is JGG oer aerophotos or just plane Jeff ?

My wife has served in legal positions in past jobs and i will show her
your email later tonight....and see what she thinks also of this
news....
** She is a licensed practitioner of laws. will she be commenting ion
spelling etc ? Sir.

Yours truly and thanks for insight,

Jeff
****** Jeff same name as son ? Is he Jeff junior or just Jeff ? sir.

Dave Kearton wrote:

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
| Dave,
|
| My other son is off with the Air Force, we dont comment on his
| operational issues, due to security nowdays.. im sure you understand.
|
| Anyone in the military service if smart, doesnt comment on operational
| issues outside the workplace as such.
|
| Just to inform you..i am a ex RAAF Mirage pilot from the 70s, and with
| my other son, we both use this internet debate forum nowdays.
|
| We also forward on my other sons emails in whatever form he chooses,
| from his time off work.
|
| So what is your problem?
|
| Please enlighten us... we all would like to know what your have
against
| my son...
|
| Thanks
|
| Andrew and Jeff
|

Hello Andrew or Jeff.

This is the first time that we (or at least I) have had any real
indication
that there is more than one person using the name 'Aerophotos'
For years we have seen his posts from your email address under the name
'Jolly Green Giant' At best, some of his posts are without
tact,
at worst, they were offensive and racist (not all - but a large
proportion).

I've noticed the difference in writing style and content over the last
few
posts, compared to the last 3 years of posts that I've seen coming from
your email address. I apologise for mistakenly directing
invective
in your direction.

If you're truly unaware of the nature of the posts that exist in Usenet
that
are from your email address, I strongly suggest you use 'Google groups
search' to look through all 'Aerophotos' posts on r.a.m for the last 3
years or so.

I used the term 'special' in a facetious way and not seriously implying
that
your son is retarded. He has few friends on Usenet that I can
see,
few people post in support of his unique beliefs - which are his right
to
say, thanks to servicemen such as yourself and the others who also took
offence to _many_ of your son's political statements. He is
entitled to believe them and say what he believes - but my belief is
that
he says a lot of them to get attention or stir up trouble - within the
safety of Internet anonymity.

One of the aspects of free speech are also the consequences of saying
what's on your mind. In response to some of your son's
inflammatory
posts - and at times offensive material, are the reactions to his
appearance on usenet.

After one series of posts where your son accused a certain ethnic group
(predominant in Sydney's western suburbs) of being all rapists and
murders,
I sent him a private email with a suggestion that he tone it down a
little.
A simple search of the internet found enough personal info to identify
what
I presume is your house and (I presume) your wife's mobile number. I
pointed out that if I could find him that easily, then it was possible
that
some of the individuals that he was slagging off, could do the same.

This worked for a month or so, then he returned as if nothing had
happened.

Shortly after this, there was a brief move by one of the other posters
to
track your son down and clean his clock. As this was a scary
turn
and as I was the only person who had admitted that I knew how to find
him,
I led the movement to leave him alone and preserve the insulation of the
Internet email system.

I promise to be more circumspect with responses to you in the future,
possibly using your Christian names at the bottom of your posts would
elicit
a better response from your friends around the world.

I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to r.a.m. where I know
this
discussion will shed light where only heat has been generated in the
past.

I remain respectfully

Dave Kearton

"Pits" wrote in message ...


I could say the same about some people i work with in life everyday, but
then maybe i am wiser and smarter then you.
** possibly your point in this contect is what exactly sir ?

Hey! the arrogance appears a family trait ... )

I keep my mouth closed sometimes, i just accept life as it is. Not all
people are nice and polite as you hope. You avoid these types, if smart
and alert.

I suggest this needs to be directed at the son rather than those who are
simply reacting to the stupidity forced upon the group.

As his father, i can tell you all, he like you and many other
posters/writers on the newsgroups i have seen lately, have a right to
express whatever the person wishes.

This is true, so what is the problem? Others are just doing exactly the
same thing ...

It is a debate/forum area in effect, many people world over, post
absolute goldmine of information.

And then there is the JGG who posts garbage, incorrect information and utter
twaddle.... Lucky those other knowledgable people are around to clear
up the disinformation isn't it?

Other hand some other post vile and
rude emails. So be it.

Funny, you appear to understand the concept, yet your posts indicate
otherwise. Hmmm....

Its called freedom and democratic right. I was taught that in my time in
the Australian Defence Force. I served to give people freedom as did
many others.

Many of those others are the people within the newsgroup who had to put up
with your *sons* behaviour over the last few years.

Have you ever served in a military job?

ROFL .. you shouldn't assume that those within this newsgroup haven't.

I suspect if people dont like what they see, a VERY simple solution is
to tune out, not read or just block the incoming messages they dont
like.

This is very good advice. Might I suggest you re-read your own advice?

(My sons have taught me how to block things online quite handy i
think )

Well given the experience that your son has at being in everyones blocked
sender list this shouldn't have been hard )

We do and as such... we have many filters on our emails.
** Incoming or outgoing ??

Given the JGG's behaviour that's not surprising ... poor things are probably
inundated with unwanted mail ....

My son who is now in Air Force is a direct honest and very bright young
man.

Awwwwwwww .. it's sooooo cute .... all to often parents arent'
interested in their kids .. *wipes a tear away*

I will agree tho how he presents himself in writing at times may lead
some to believe otherwise.
** Speechless

)

He just writes directly and doesn't care how it comes out. Im sure
anyone who interacted with him on this forum can agree.

I would go the step further and suggest he didn't think about what he wrote
either.

I am only finding out now tho rather lately what was online, as i get
older i use a computer more.
** There is that like son like father writing style . You Tasmanian ??
If so you would know more than one Mirage driver from that state in the
70's
sir .

I used to work for a Mirage pilot .. although i'd be loathe to post his name
in the newsgroups .. top bloke though .. flew sabres and mirages and used to
hassle the big man to fly his PC9....

I as you have seen lately, use a more constructed and understanding ways
to converse with people as does the other son, Jeff.
*** jeff is JGG oer aerophotos or just plane Jeff ?

He went to 1RTU .. he ain't no "plane Jeff"... jsut a plain Jeff

My wife has served in legal positions in past jobs and i will show her
your email later tonight....and see what she thinks also of this
news....

While you are at it .. show her your sons posts.

** She is a licensed practitioner of laws. will she be commenting ion
spelling etc ? Sir.

) I'm hoping she'll read her sons posts with a dawning horror of the
fact that her son is a newsgroup troll.


Jeff
****** Jeff same name as son ? Is he Jeff junior or just Jeff ? sir.

How confusing ...I thought Jeff was the Kiddle and we were talking to the
Daddle ... *shrug* ....

Mind you, it's more fun than Days of Our Lives )

Geeeeeeeeeeeze CBR watch those attributions PLEASE !!
"VH-CBR" wrote in message
...

Jeff thats "plane Jeff "
as opposed to plain Jeff
May care to look up a post I recall said to come from
a"friend" of the JGG came in here and x posting to several other groups
also saying he was an Ex Knuck
that friend got up the nose of at least 3 real ex mirage drivers who tore
the bull dust to shreds it never posted again .Interestingly enough he
was also an Ihug user
perhaps one of these is worth a look
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame54.html

Now to just plane Jeff you being an ex Miracle driver
could help me out with a few things
Approach speed is what coming over the fence ?
the Arming switch and weapons selector panel is on which side of the
cockpit?

The word Whites indicates what to a Mirage flight?
How does one initiate an ejection sequence in a miarge ?

Two seat Mirages had something important missing
what was it ?
The no go area for salt ash range was nicknamed what ?

The fighter version and the attack versions of the Mirage had what
differences .

Such things would be of interest to many on here I suggest .

Dad appeared to say
Its called freedom and democratic right. I was taught that in my time
in
the Australian Defence Force. I served to give people freedom as did
many others.
Out of interest which squadron/s were you in in the 70's
maybe we have met and have things in common .

Have you ever served in a military job?
Perhaps one or two yes .
my phone is 0429200024

Jeff
****** Jeff same name as son ? Is he Jeff junior or just Jeff ?
sir.

How confusing ...I thought Jeff was the Kiddle and we were talking to the
Daddle ... *shrug* ....

Mind you, it's more fun than Days of Our Lives )

CBR you forgot to append the suffix 'tho.

I think I have a copy of pilots notes about but maybe the white
ants have eaten them as well

"Pits" wrote in message ...


The no go area for salt ash range was nicknamed what ?


Mother Earth.

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
Hi Dave

This reply from you is news to me. Some of these comments you make sound
very critical of my son.

I dont like some of your email's tone and language tho.

I will reply as fit below addressing the points you made.

I could say the same about some people i work with in life everyday, but
then maybe i am wiser and smarter then you.

*rolls eyes*


I keep my mouth closed sometimes, i just accept life as it is. Not all
people are nice and polite as you hope. You avoid these types, if smart
and alert.

As his father, i can tell you all, he like you and many other
posters/writers on the newsgroups i have seen lately, have a right to
express whatever the person wishes.

Except when it amounts to libel.


It is a debate/forum area in effect, many people world over, post
absolute goldmine of information. Other hand some other post vile and
rude emails.

Just like your little trooper. General Cosgrove wasn't very impressed, at
all.

Spelling flames are pretty lame, so I won't hit you with one. But.........
for someone who declares himself an Air Force officer, your spelling and
grammar leave something to be desired. I guess it runs in the family.

--
"The code of the warrior class has room for fallibility but there is no room
for a lack of integrity."

"Pits" wrote in message ...
Geeeeeeeeeeeze CBR watch those attributions PLEASE !!

yeah sorry ... it's a mix of having the JGG in the killfile (so seeing
everything third hand) AND whoever posted the html ... ;o)

I was pretty busy laughing at the whole thread .... It's all so familiar
isn't it.

It really isn't that hard to use different nicknames/addresses in a
newsgroup ... we do it here

Aerophotos/JGG sure wound you you lot up :-)

(All that happened is that he got his 13 year old sister to correct his
spelling ;-)