IFR Cancellation Question

Mark Hansen wrote in
:

For IFR, a visual approach requires sight of the airport / runway
environment,

... or sight of the airplane ahead of you...

For controlled airports, yes you are correct. HOWEVER..... we are
talking about cancelling IFR which is generally speaking is not done at
controlled airports.

If it's an IFR plane in front of you, you won't be cleared for the visual
to an UNcontrolled airport until that plane cancels his IFR.

An uncontrolled airport is literally shut down for IFR arrivals until
that IFR cancellation is received by the plane in front of you. Thus the
courtesy / importance to cancel as soon as you can so the person behind
you won't have to hold.

This happened to me last year, when I was in IMC returning to my airport,
and the plane before me didn't call CD to cancel his IFR after landing.
Having been in IMC for 1 1/2 hours, I was tired and ready to see land.

I was put in a hold until ATC could indeed verify the plane had landed.
Since I was doing local approaches, figured holding for 20 minutes
wouldn't be that productive so after a couple of laps in the hold, I
figured I'd try to get smart and do an ILS to a neighboring airport, get
below the cloud deck and try special VFR. No can do, since I was still
IFR, and the weather was below VFR conditions, so I just did a couple of
ILS approaches at the neighboring airport until ATC could re-open my home
airport.

Allen

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 01:30:56 GMT, A Lieberma wrote:



Once I get a visual on my airport (KMBO - uncontrolled), I do cancel IFR
as soon as I can.


Perhaps you should reconsider and not cancel IFR until you are legal for
VFR. There have been plenty of times when I've had a "visual" on my
airport, but not been legal VFR.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote in
:

Once I get a visual on my airport (KMBO - uncontrolled), I do cancel IFR
as soon as I can.


Perhaps you should reconsider and not cancel IFR until you are legal for
VFR. There have been plenty of times when I've had a "visual" on my
airport, but not been legal VFR.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ahh, yes, I probably should have said when VFR, I cancel as soon as I can
:-)

Though to be honest, I have never encountered your situation where I was
able to even think about cancelling IFR, as less then one mile viz from the
airport or ceilings lower then 1000 feet is pretty crummy conditions to
even consider cancelling IFR in the air. I certainly won't cancel while I
am in the pattern as at that point, what's a few minutes more for the
airplane behind me.

The 3 or 4 times I have gone to minimums at my airport (1 mile viz and 900
ceilings on a VOR Alpha), last thought on my mind was "communicate" Aviate
and Navigate were first and foremost. I just wait and cancel via CD or FSS
if necessary as soon as I can after cleaning up the plane and am cleared
the runway.

I have read cases where a pilot has cancelled IFR in less then VFR
conditions only to meet up with FSDO personell after landing....

Allen

Roy Smith wrote:
A Lieberma wrote:
They would if the tower had no radar.
Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own). IFR separation
doesn't require radar contact. It doesn't even require radio contact.
Both of those just make it possible to apply more efficient methods of
achieving the required separation.

It doesn't even require a tower. Just a control zo-er um surface area
of controlled airspace.

Mark Hansen wrote:

Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

Well in the ADIZ you darn well better keep squawking that discrete
code to the ground even if you cancel IFR (ATC will usually warn
you about this...violations are a pain in the butt for them too).

It's pretty standard everywhere else. I've never been told to
squawk VFR while IFR even without radar service.

Newps wrote:


A Lieberma wrote:



IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

ATC takes no overt action to cancel an IFR aircraft landing at a towered
field. You just land.

Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?

Ron Natalie wrote in :

Well in the ADIZ you darn well better keep squawking that discrete
code to the ground even if you cancel IFR (ATC will usually warn
you about this...violations are a pain in the butt for them too).

Correct me if I am wrong as I have never been in the ADIZ, but in the ADIZ,
you will hear IFR cancellation received, but you WILL NOT hear "Squawk VFR,
have good day"

Naturally, I could understand the pilot being on "autopilot" and by habit
changing to 1200 once they heard the cancellation received but the legalese
of it would be he was never told to change the transponder if my thoughts
are correct above.

I know I'd appreciate that extra warning from ATC.

Allen

Ron Natalie wrote:
Newps wrote:



A Lieberma wrote:



IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


ATC takes no overt action to cancel an IFR aircraft landing at a
towered field. You just land.


Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?

ATC as in approach takes no overt action. The tower controller hits the
land line to approach and says "N12345 is on the ground" end of IFR flight.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:21:40 GMT, A Lieberma wrote:

I have read cases where a pilot has cancelled IFR in less then VFR
conditions only to meet up with FSDO personell after landing....

Yes, that was my point.

Conditions of 900' 10+mi vis are not that unusual here. And with a dive
and drive approach, you may be at 700-800' with good visibility for a
while, and be tempted to cancel to facilitate traffic behind you.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Natalie wrote:
Newps wrote:



A Lieberma wrote:



IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


ATC takes no overt action to cancel an IFR aircraft landing at a
towered field. You just land.


Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?

The tower will know if you landed. What did you think happened?