ADIZ Violation Explained in AOPA Magazine

John Theune wrote:
I'll addresss the last first. You really think your name is a good
identifier? Have you looked at a phone book lately?

only one guy in the rest of the USA with the same last name, who
design fancy women shoes in New York :-) definitely nobody else
with the same combination of first name and last name; ok, may
be I am a bit of an exception here, but this is good enough for a
business or bank, especially when coupled with an account
number.

but at some point there is need for crossover between the systems and
having multiple numbers will increase the chance of a mismatch being made.

why? what possible reason would your bank have to know your
medical history? or history of phone calls?


As far as SSN not being unique, the system was designed to have it be
unique, if it broke down then fix it.

it has broken down, and it has not been fixed.

I just spent several minutes
goggling on the "SSN Not Unique" and while it had many hits none of them
said anything about the number being assigned to multiple people.

as good as Google is, this is not the only source of info out there
by the way.


I think you need to remove your tinfoil hat here.

Ah, the good ol' 'you are paranoid' argument; right next to
the 'but, I have nothing to hide' argument.

if you believe that all that's needed is additional regulations to
protect you, then you are naive. May be, you might be lucky to
live at a time when the current administration is indeed following
its own rules, and respect due process, and all that. But
information collected about you will outlive any administration;

now may be you are right, may be I am paranoid and we will never
live in a country where one's freedom of travel can be limited by secret
lists which you cannot correct, where due process is no longer
respected, where one can be imprisoned indefinitely and tortured without
access to a lawyer or the evidence used against him, only based
on bad intel collected via non transparent means, where
the constitution becomes just a 'goddamn piece of paper', etc. yeah,
it can be only a bad dream, my imagination is really running wild,
cannot possibly happen here.

Your bank has no
legitimate reason to cross reference your account and your phone calls
nor will they as they is no business reason for them to do so.

then why make it easily available in the first place? oh, I get
it; you can trust them, they are good people, why would they
want to do you harm? nay, they'll never be tempted to sell your
information to the best bidder, even when it becomes one of the
hottest commodity in these days and age, why would they? it is not
as if they would want to make money, just to look after your welfare.
And in any case, you can trust the government to take care of it
and look after your best interest should it ever be abused. Right.

now, you are good at googling; find out what was the first large
scale use of information technology -- beware, it predates electronic
computers -- where cross referencing of seemingly innocuous personal
information was used to its full potential (search for 'Edwin Black',
should be mandatory reading to anyone taking up an IT course);

Sorry for being so completely off the topic of this group, but
this is a serious matter, where complacency eventually kills.

--Sylvain

John Theune wrote in news:7zjwf.1494$Tn6.742@trnddc04:

Jose wrote:
I've been following the SSN debate for a bit and I have not yet seen
any mention of the fact that there is a legitinmate nneed to a single
identification number to tie together the various parts of people's
information.


I don't want all the various parts of my information to be tied together
by other people for their benefit.

Jose
Not a problem, then don't deal with banks or insurance companies.

Ahhh...another person who'd make an excellent citizen in the
new world order....should I call you 'cousin'?

Just three of many books that I think should be compulsory reading
in school are "Brave New World", "1984", and "Farhenheit 451".

I'm also reminded of that British series, "The Prisoner".

"I am not a number! I am a free man!"

Or we can all start worrying about becoming "obsolete" (Twilight Zone)

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Skywise wrote:

Just three of many books that I think should be compulsory reading
in school are "Brave New World", "1984", and "Farhenheit 451".

Two of those were compulsory when I was in high school.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

George Patterson wrote:
Skywise wrote:

Just three of many books that I think should be compulsory reading
in school are "Brave New World", "1984", and "Farhenheit 451".


Two of those were compulsory when I was in high school.

All three were, for various classes, when I was in high school, not all
that long ago. Unfortunately, no one takes away any lessons from them.

at some point there is need for crossover between the systems

At what point would that be?

Your bank has no legitimate reason to cross reference your account and your phone calls
nor will they as they is no business reason for them to do so.

Sure there is. And they have a business reason to cross reference my
account with my health information too. Both are valuable, and banks
are a business. I just don't want them to.

My employer has a business reason to cross reference my bank account, my
health information, my mortgage information, my phone calls, and
everything I do on and off the job. I don't want them to.

And anybody who gets any of my information has an easy method to get all
the rest of it. I don't want them to.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Farnham's Freehold" by Robert Heinlein

Ahhh...another person who'd make an excellent citizen in the
new world order....should I call you 'cousin'?

Just three of many books that I think should be compulsory reading
in school are "Brave New World", "1984", and "Farhenheit 451".

I'm also reminded of that British series, "The Prisoner".

"I am not a number! I am a free man!"

Or we can all start worrying about becoming "obsolete" (Twilight Zone)

Brian


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:08:06 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

Anyone who thinks that comments to a NPRM will have any real effect
on the outcome just hasn't been paying attention to the way the FAA
has handled them.

Well, perhaps an NPRM _meeting_ with representatives from six federal
agencies listening to pilots will be more effective in getting a bad
idea revoked:

-------------------------------------------------------------
AOPA ePilot Volume 8, Issue 2 January 13, 2006
-------------------------------------------------------------

ADIZ DRAWS IRE FROM PILOTS DURING FIRST PUBLIC MEETING
More than 200 people on Thursday filled a conference room in
Columbia, Maryland, and almost all were there to tell federal
officials why the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification
Zone (ADIZ) shouldn't be made permanent. "The ADIZ should be
abolished," said Scott Proudfoot, one of the first speakers at the
public meeting. He was speaking for the air traffic controllers
union, NATCA, and added, "The ADIZ is nothing but a burden on the
users and the controllers." AOPA had pushed for public meetings,
arguing that regulators needed to hear directly from pilots
themselves about the problems caused by the ADIZ. And there are
plenty. Meanwhile, pilots didn't realize that an ADIZ clearance
wasn't the same thing as "radar identification," so that even
though they were talking to ATC, they weren't receiving traffic
advisories. William Finagin, whose company sells Aviat aircraft,
said he has lost $1 million a year in sales since the ADIZ was
imposed. Another local pilot based at Montgomery County Airpark
inside the ADIZ said an FBO there had closed because of lack of
business. "Flights to our home in Williamsburg (Virginia) are now
50 percent longer, and I spend $50 more for fuel, because of
circumnavigating the ADIZ," said Russell Madsen. The public
meeting continued through Thursday evening, with representatives
from six federal agencies listening to pilots. A second public
meeting, where AOPA President Phil Boyer will speak, is scheduled
next Wednesday in Dulles, Virginia. Nearly 20,000 people have
filed written comments, mostly in opposition to the ADIZ. If you
haven't done so, file your comments today. The deadline is
February 6. See AOPA's Member Action Center: Operation ADIZ
( http://www.aopa.org/adizalert ) for more information.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:08:06 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

Anyone who thinks that comments to a NPRM will have any real effect
on the outcome just hasn't been paying attention to the way the FAA
has handled them.

Well, perhaps an NPRM _meeting_ with representatives from six federal
agencies listening to pilots will be more effective in getting a bad
idea revoked:

-------------------------------------------------------------
AOPA ePilot Volume 8, Issue 2 January 13, 2006
-------------------------------------------------------------

ADIZ DRAWS IRE FROM PILOTS DURING FIRST PUBLIC MEETING
More than 200 people on Thursday filled a conference room in
Columbia, Maryland, and almost all were there to tell federal
officials why the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification
Zone (ADIZ) shouldn't be made permanent. "The ADIZ should be
abolished," said Scott Proudfoot, one of the first speakers at the
public meeting. He was speaking for the air traffic controllers
union, NATCA, and added, "The ADIZ is nothing but a burden on the
users and the controllers." AOPA had pushed for public meetings,
arguing that regulators needed to hear directly from pilots
themselves about the problems caused by the ADIZ. And there are
plenty. Meanwhile, pilots didn't realize that an ADIZ clearance
wasn't the same thing as "radar identification," so that even
though they were talking to ATC, they weren't receiving traffic
advisories. William Finagin, whose company sells Aviat aircraft,
said he has lost $1 million a year in sales since the ADIZ was
imposed. Another local pilot based at Montgomery County Airpark
inside the ADIZ said an FBO there had closed because of lack of
business. "Flights to our home in Williamsburg (Virginia) are now
50 percent longer, and I spend $50 more for fuel, because of
circumnavigating the ADIZ," said Russell Madsen. The public
meeting continued through Thursday evening, with representatives
from six federal agencies listening to pilots. A second public
meeting, where AOPA President Phil Boyer will speak, is scheduled
next Wednesday in Dulles, Virginia. Nearly 20,000 people have
filed written comments, mostly in opposition to the ADIZ. If you
haven't done so, file your comments today. The deadline is
February 6. See AOPA's Member Action Center: Operation ADIZ
( http://www.aopa.org/adizalert ) for more information.

Two important questions to ask of the Homeland Security people in
attendance:

1. Which one of you is Chicken Little?

2. Which one is Fearless Fosdick?

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

1. Which one of you is Chicken Little?

The guy on the left.

2. Which one is Fearless Fosdick?

The guy on the right.

http://www.aopa.org/images/whatsnew/...060112adiz.jpg

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.