Start Anywhere

wrote:
You both mean a "sphericonical pyramid". Why nick when you can nuke.
R
I thought it was a form of frustrum?
Are you sure the ends are spherical - Technically they would be
"geoidal" and conform to some variant of the WGS84 ellipsoidal model,
modified by the pressure distribution of the day.
Within the ability to measure I would say you could call it a Frustrum
of a cone. The vertical difference between the geometric straight line
and an ellipsoidal projection is likely to be less than your system error...

On Dec 23, 8:42*am, Bruce wrote:

Within the ability to measure I would say you could call it a Frustrum
of a cone. The vertical difference between the geometric straight line
and an ellipsoidal projection is likely to be less than your system error....


Somehow 'start cone frustrum' doesn't really roll off the tongue.

I remain curious about the "initial climb variance" across competitors
under the new rule versus the old rule. Does it pay to hunt around
inside the cylinder for the very best thermal or just head out on
course if you don't connect right away?

9B

Does it pay to hunt around inside the cylinder for the very best
thermal or just head out on course if you don't connect right away?

Yes. Anything else would lead to a landout score.

The winter solstice grows smaller in the rear view mirror, eyes fixed
on the emerging spring calendar --

2NO

On Dec 23, 9:44*am, Tuno wrote:
Does it pay to hunt around inside the cylinder for the very best
thermal or just head out on course if you don't connect right away?

Yes. Anything else would lead to a landout score.

The winter solstice grows smaller in the rear view mirror, eyes fixed
on the emerging spring calendar --

2NO

Wise guy.

Corrected statement: "...or just head out on course from the edge of
the start cone frustrum as close to MSH as you can get and hope to
connect with a better thermal on course".

Cabin fever setting in. I may have to go analyze something...

9B

Not a "Frustum " as a Frustum rest on its base. In this case a Frustum
is the feeling you get when the entire fleet passes 2000' over you as
you start and did so with a 1-26 following in behind. That is a
Frustum.
R

Andy and others:

This is really great, and thanks for starting up this thread. The RC
really needs this kind of feedback, and make sure to tell us how
things work out during the season.

I read Andy's story this way: The rule is working pretty much as
intended -- it's spreading everybody out as they fish around through
75 square miles looking for a rocket ride out the top. In one sense
this is good news because we worried that "start anywhere" would just
move the gagglle to a different spot and not change anything.

As with the emphasis on TAT and MAT over AST, "spreading out" has fans
and critics. Fans note it's safer to fly by yourself rather than in
big gaggles, and it rewards lone-eagle types who make bold choices
rather than tactical flying and leeching. Critics note that lots of
people like tactical flying and leeching; they like tight races where
"bold choices by lone eagles" or just dumb luck don't have a big
scoresheet impact. A lot of pilots would like a race in which we all
start at the same time and place, run around an AST very close to each
other, and race over a few minutes here and there. (Read, Grand
Prix).

All of this is important. The quality of the race experience matters.
If people feel that starts out the top are introducing too much
variability and strategy for the amount of spreading out they do, then
we need to hear about it.There are simple ways to fiddle with the rule
-- for example, only give extra distance for starts out the side -- if
everyone starts to dislike the start out the top feature. On the
other hand if people feel that the ability to sneak away from the
gaggle by doing something different at the start is valuable, then
this is another argument in its favor.

How I envy you west coast guys all your troubles over 10 knot thermals
that rocket you up so fast that 11,000' start height isn't enough.

John Cochrane
BB

On Dec 23, 9:27*am, Tuno wrote:
Kirk,

When you evaluate the "unfairness" you feel when you see somebody
2000' overhead who started out the top, remember that their leg
started when they went out the top; they only have an advantage if
their thermal was better than the first one you choose to take.

If you hit a better thermal than the one the other guy took out the
top, who will be having the faster leg?

.02NO

Prior to the first thermal on course (outside the start frustrum
thingie), my simple single-cell brain tells me that someone who is
2000' above, and started behind me, is going to have a slight initial
advantage! OTOH, if I start out the side at MSH -1ft, and next to me
is someone at MSH +1ft who started out the top 9 miles back 2000'
above MSH, then we start out pretty much equal except for the extra
distance. Which is why I'm whining about the out the top being
"unfair": All competitors do not have an equal opportunity to explore
all the start cylinder for that boomer; the gate is opened after
enough time for the last launch to climb up to MSH, not to the "best"
altitude, so earlier launches have a greater opportunity to take
advantage of the out-the-top start.

Now couple this with the tendency for CDs to call pretty short tasks,
and you end up with the situation where grid position can have a
determining effect on scores!

Unintended consequences, etc...

Kirk
66

On Dec 23, 12:37*pm, " wrote:
Not a "Frustum " as a Frustum rest on its base. In this case a Frustum
is the feeling you get when the entire fleet passes 2000' over you as
you start and did so with a 1-26 following in behind. That is a
Frustum.
R

Okay it's now called the "start inverted conical frustum"

On Dec 23, 1:16*pm, wrote:
Andy and others:

This is really great, and thanks for starting up this thread. The RC
really needs this kind of feedback, and make sure to tell us how
things work out during the season.

I read Andy's story this way: The rule is working pretty much as
intended -- it's spreading everybody out as they fish around through
75 square miles looking for a rocket ride out the top. In one sense
this is good news because we worried that "start anywhere" would just
move the gagglle to a different spot and not change anything.


I think that's bacically correct - at least out west where all the
thermal are 10+ kts to 17,500' g The cylinder is big enough that
someone finding a boomer genreally draws at most a smallish gaggle of
gliders from the immediate vicinity at that time. Things tightened up
a bit if the cylinder had clear areas of more versus less favorable
lift. In any event I felt the size of the gaggles was reduced as was
some of the bunching up on course - although Parowan doesn't suffer
from bomber formation task flying anyway.

I didn't see lots of gaggle-bumping, but in my case I saw climbs
through the top that generally topped out thousands of feet above MSH
- making bumping thermals a very different proposition from what the
RC concerned about. I can't recall anybody taking a start out the side
of the cylinder - though I can't say categorically it didn't happen.

I would think the experience in a contest where pilots can't reach MSH
might be quite different. Anybody?

9B

wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:16 pm, wrote:
Andy and others:

This is really great, and thanks for starting up this thread. The RC
really needs this kind of feedback, and make sure to tell us how
things work out during the season.

I read Andy's story this way: The rule is working pretty much as
intended -- it's spreading everybody out as they fish around through
75 square miles looking for a rocket ride out the top. In one sense
this is good news because we worried that "start anywhere" would just
move the gagglle to a different spot and not change anything.


I think that's bacically correct - at least out west where all the
thermal are 10+ kts to 17,500' g The cylinder is big enough that
someone finding a boomer genreally draws at most a smallish gaggle of
gliders from the immediate vicinity at that time. Things tightened up
a bit if the cylinder had clear areas of more versus less favorable
lift. In any event I felt the size of the gaggles was reduced as was
some of the bunching up on course - although Parowan doesn't suffer
from bomber formation task flying anyway.

I didn't see lots of gaggle-bumping, but in my case I saw climbs
through the top that generally topped out thousands of feet above MSH
- making bumping thermals a very different proposition from what the
RC concerned about. I can't recall anybody taking a start out the side
of the cylinder - though I can't say categorically it didn't happen.

I would think the experience in a contest where pilots can't reach MSH
might be quite different. Anybody?

9B

I went out the side the last 3 days at Parowan. Even won 15m on one of
those days. Decided it was time to go, couldn't find a good climb, so
pressed out on course right at the top from a crappy little 5 kt thermal
(gotta love Parowan ).

I think the start anywhere rule did what it was designed to do in
spreading the pack out a little. The low max start height certainly
changed peoples thinking about the start of the race. Resulted in some
strategic compromises (very early or very late starts) to get a tactical
start advantage.

ZL