What do you do in the real world?

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:51:48 -0500, Ron Rosenfeld
wrote:

Is your
aircraft not able to climb to the minimum IFR altitude for your route? If
that is the case, you have an emergency situation and can do whatever you
need to do.

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains
nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a
new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte wrote:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.


You're arguing IFR with someone who never leaves his bedroom.

Travis Marlatte writes:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route.

Sure you can. Aircraft do it all the time. For example, you can be assigned
a route and altitude from the West Coast (of the U.S.) that will take you
right into the side of a mountain if you continue on it long enough; but you
accept it anyway because you know that ATC will change your heading and
altitude long before that happens.

You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

But what if you are given vectors and altitude well after take-off, and these
will _eventually_ lead you into a mountain, and you lose communications before
ATC can change them? Do you return to your original flight plan, no matter
what kind of altitude or course changes are required? Do you fly the last
vectors you were given, and veer away from them only when it becomes unsafe to
fly them (and which way do you go?)? What do you do?

If you receive vectors very different from your filed route in crowded
airspace and you then lose your radio, trying to return to your originally
filed route might be dangerous. At the same time, you can't indefinitely
follow vectors that will take you into terrain. If you follow the latter
vectors, at some point you must deviate from them to avoid terrain--which way
do you go then?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.


Radio failure has nothing to do with what the OP asked. He
asked about the routing should he have been IMC. ArtP's inference still
stands. If you are IMC and accepted a route that you may not have been
able to fly, you will have some explaining to do about why you accepted
a route that could put you into that mountainside.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Radio failure has nothing to do with what the OP asked. He
asked about the routing should he have been IMC. ArtP's inference still
stands. If you are IMC and accepted a route that you may not have been
able to fly,

He could fly it just fine, it was a vector. ATC does it all the time
and in reality isn't a route at all as there is no non radar component
to it.


you will have some explaining to do about why you accepted
a route that could put you into that mountainside.

Hogwash. ATC would never vector an airplane if every aircraft refused
because at some point you would hit something. The answer to the
question is if you lose comm you take care of yourself. It is an
emergency situation if terrain is a factor. You do what ever you have
to to avoid terrain/obstructions.

In article ,
ArtP wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:51:48 -0500, Ron Rosenfeld
wrote:

Is your
aircraft not able to climb to the minimum IFR altitude for your route? If
that is the case, you have an emergency situation and can do whatever you
need to do.

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Of course I could fly it, just not at the initially assigned altitude.
That is why my option #1 was to climb.

rg

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:38:27 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:


Of course I could fly it, just not at the initially assigned altitude.
That is why my option #1 was to climb.

All I said was that it was not an option (assuming no emergency)
because you are expected to fly at or above the MEA for the route even
if it is higher than the initially assigned altitude.

In article ,
Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:03:57 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

Last night I flew from SJC to VNY. To my astonishment I was cleared
vectors to SNS, then direct VNY (despite having filed a more standard
routing) at 9000 feet. I knew perfectly well that the routing was going
to change because I've done that route a zillion times, and indeed, near
Bakersfield they switched me over to the standard LHS, LYNXX8 arrival,
followed by vectors to the ILS RWY 16R.

My question is: what should I have done if I'd been in IMC and lost comm
before they changed my routing? By the book I should have continued to
fly my clearance, which would have run me into a mountain around GMN, so
that's probably not the right answer. Viable possibilities seem to
include:

1. Divert (or climb) just enough to avoid the terrain around GMN, fly
to VNY, and commence an approach from there.

2. As above, but vector myself for the ILS before reaching VNY.

3&4 - as above but fly to LHS and the LYNXX8 arrival.

5. Divert to the nearest airport with an IAP.

My aircraft is /G so I know pretty much exactly where I am at all times.

rg


"By the book", the route you fly should be the last clearance.

Yes, I know that. That is why the subject of this post is "What do you
do in the real world?"

I don't understand, however, why you would run into a mountain if you are
following the altitude rules of the "lost-comm" regulations. Is your
aircraft not able to climb to the minimum IFR altitude for your route?

The assigned route was not on an airway, and so there is no minimum IFR
altitude on the route. The first 250 miles or so are over pretty flat
terrain. It is only shortly before you get to the destination that the
mountains begin.

rg