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Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 1st 18, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:09:45 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
Don Mayer at Pepperell MA has been doing my Security 150 repack
http://www.parachuteshop.com/service_life_limits.htm


Another happy customer of Don's here - just UPS your chute to him.
Best Regards, Dave
  #12  
Old June 2nd 18, 12:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 580
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

I was not aware of Para-Phernalia's 20-year life (which seems to check out based on quick research). I don't believe it's common knowledge. If I had known about it, I would not have bought mine. At age 67, saying I won't buy another one is probably not that threatening. But I won't.

You can talk all you want about the per-year cost over 20 years, but it's still $2,000+. Knowing it's a wasting asset regardless of how well you care for it is discouraging.

Chip Bearden




  #13  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 4:23:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I was not aware of Para-Phernalia's 20-year life (which seems to check out based on quick research). I don't believe it's common knowledge. If I had known about it, I would not have bought mine. At age 67, saying I won't buy another one is probably not that threatening. But I won't.

You can talk all you want about the per-year cost over 20 years, but it's still $2,000+. Knowing it's a wasting asset regardless of how well you care for it is discouraging.

Chip Bearden


I am on my third chute, would love to buy another in seventeen years, when this one times out. It is not a "wasting asset", it is a depreciating asset used as a/the safety device. I have never had a car for twenty years, a couch, a bed, a pillow, a climbing rope, boat.... Put aside $100 per year, or cut one Starbuck's trip a week for a year and you are move than covered (I assume you will invest your $100). It is really not a big burden if you plan for it. And it is your butt! I have had a few classes in material sciences. Anyone remember the acid wash thingy?
  #14  
Old June 2nd 18, 11:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 1:31:56 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 4:23:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I was not aware of Para-Phernalia's 20-year life (which seems to check out based on quick research). I don't believe it's common knowledge. If I had known about it, I would not have bought mine. At age 67, saying I won't buy another one is probably not that threatening. But I won't.

You can talk all you want about the per-year cost over 20 years, but it's still $2,000+. Knowing it's a wasting asset regardless of how well you care for it is discouraging.

Chip Bearden


I am on my third chute, would love to buy another in seventeen years, when this one times out. It is not a "wasting asset", it is a depreciating asset used as a/the safety device. I have never had a car for twenty years, a couch, a bed, a pillow, a climbing rope, boat.... Put aside $100 per year, or cut one Starbuck's trip a week for a year and you are move than covered (I assume you will invest your $100). It is really not a big burden if you plan for it. And it is your butt! I have had a few classes in material sciences. Anyone remember the acid wash thingy?

Acid mesh problem was a manufacturing error that took a lot less than 20 years to show up. Replacing parachutes every 20 years wouldn't have avoided anything. Do you throw out your glass gliders when they are 21 years old? Parachutes and glass gliders are both made out of petroleum if one can't be determined to be safe after 20 years neither can the other. It's funny we fly 50+ plus year old Schweizers that have spent their lives tied down outside yet some try to convince us that a parachute that spends most of its life in a bag stored in a closet is unairworthy at 21 years old.
  #15  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Whelan[_3_]
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Posts: 400
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

On 6/1/2018 11:31 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 4:23:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I was not aware of Para-Phernalia's 20-year life (which seems to check out based on quick research). I don't believe it's common knowledge. If I had known about it, I would not have bought mine. At age 67, saying I won't buy another one is probably not that threatening. But I won't.

You can talk all you want about the per-year cost over 20 years, but it's still $2,000+. Knowing it's a wasting asset regardless of how well you care for it is discouraging.

Chip Bearden


I am on my third chute, would love to buy another in seventeen years, when this one times out. It is not a "wasting asset", it is a depreciating asset used as a/the safety device. I have never had a car for twenty years, a couch, a bed, a pillow, a climbing rope, boat.... Put aside $100 per year, or cut one Starbuck's trip a week for a year and you are move than covered (I assume you will invest your $100). It is really not a big burden if you plan for it. And it is your butt! I have had a few classes in material sciences. Anyone remember the acid wash thingy?


Hmmm...

Everything has a lifespan, but 'humanly repurposed mechanical stuff' (e.g.
parachutes, gliders, cars) end-of-life condition is typically far less digital
than 'organic lives' (e.g. humans).

You don't have to have been an engineering major to have had a materials
science class or two (I was/did) but it may or may not be helpful. In any
event, it's already been noted 'the acid wash thingy' had zero to do with
'normal lifespan' and became apparent well before 'the magic 20 years' had
passed. I still have my original parachute (a 1953-ish round Navy canopy in an
older Army pack [or perhaps vice-versa - it's been a long time]); last (not
the first) time it was 'used in anger' was 1975; last time repacked was ~1995
(it tested just fine, in every respect).

When was the last 1-26 built? It surely woulda been fun to've attended the
2018 World 1-26 Champeenships recently completed.

How many 1st generation glass gliders have been found structurally kaput
'merely' because of age? The first C-172 still flies, in more or less original
- as in restoration not critically necessary - condition.

I sold my first glider tow vehicle for $500 after 37 years of glider towing
use; it had cost me ~$2600 new. Perhaps had I washed it more than a few times
the first year I owned it (and never thereafter), the unibody may not have
rusted so rapidly. It was registered, running and roadworthy the day I sold it
(the $500 was for its 3rd engine...which soon powered a 1961 Mercury Comet).
The only other vehicle I've ever purchased was made in 1990 and remains a
daily driver, albeit with only 245,000 miles on it to date and only the timing
belt (2X) and brake linings (1X) having required routine replacement; I
replaced spark plugs, once, out of curiosity - it wasn't necessary, based on
fuel mileage. A fully-independent-suspensioned vehicle, based on tire wear
patterns it has never had/needed a wheel alignment, nor has it required
anything more than occasionally rotating fronts-to-rears to maximize tire life
wear rates. Dangerously, neither vehicle ever had airbags or weighed more than
2600 lbs, fueled and oiled. Both vehicles took/continue-to-take wife and I on
tens of thousands of back road dirt miles, many of them of the 'seriously
dodgy' persuasion.

More power to those folks who have more 'time limited' views on 'useful age of
stuff.' But please don't indulge in FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) as the
approved method for playing Life-Safety Police for those who have differing
views. Not only is it misguided (if arguably well-intentioned), but it's also
a dollar-expensive manner of living - if that's of any importance- and (also
arguably) likely diminishes one's 'life adventure quotient.'

Bob W.

P.S. BTW, the number of times either of the above-mentioned vehicles ever
required attention of professional mechanics (as opposed to me, strictly a
dollar-sensitive, wrench turning, 'Murican who can read repair manuals), can
likely be counted without taking off my socks...and that includes exhaust
system repairs, which is where I draw my personal line. And, yes, I find the
balance between doing it myself and paying others to do it an easy trade to
make - I've never failed to obtain immediate, non-time/aggravation-wasting,
easy satisfaction if Joe Mechanic screws up!

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #16  
Old June 2nd 18, 04:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

I think the acid wash took 5 years to show up on my softie. Not sure what might have reared it's head later, as at 20 years, I though I had sweated enough on the chute and purchased a new one. With all due respect, your logic jump, that a glider made of petroleum products isn't limited to a 20 year usable lifespan then a petroleum base chute should be either. This jump is not based in fact, logic, nor science. Hell, even petroleum has a very limited life. How would you like to drive your new car on petro that is 5 years old let alone 20? I have a feeling it would not drive. The "we" in "we fly 50+ plus year old Schweizers, is singular, as I don't fly 50 plus year old Schweizers, this has been covered on other threads about the state of soaring in America. Having said that, I do have a fair amount of time in 75 + year old WWII aircraft, that had been lovingly rebuilt. I flew those aircraft wearing a chute that was less than 20 years old.
Twenty years is a lot of wear an tear. You should have seen me twenty years ago.


On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 3:42:33 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Acid mesh problem was a manufacturing error that took a lot less than 20 years to show up. Replacing parachutes every 20 years wouldn't have avoided anything. Do you throw out your glass gliders when they are 21 years old? Parachutes and glass gliders are both made out of petroleum if one can't be determined to be safe after 20 years neither can the other. It's funny we fly 50+ plus year old Schweizers that have spent their lives tied down outside yet some try to convince us that a parachute that spends most of its life in a bag stored in a closet is unairworthy at 21 years old.

  #17  
Old June 2nd 18, 04:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

Bob, great, you are a good mechanic and you don't have to drive to see clients. An old car and an old parachute might have a few notable difference, don't ya thunk? Just off the top of my head, if a car breaks it rolls to a stop. If a parachute breaks, your ****ed. I know glider pilots are notoriously cheap. If you can't find the logic in adhering to manufacturer and parachute association recommendations, or can't seem to find $100 per year to put toward a new chute then, I wish you a good day. Personally, my life is worth the cost...


On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 6:36:40 AM UTC-7, Bob Whelan wrote:
More power to those folks who have more 'time limited' views on 'useful age of
stuff.' But please don't indulge in FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) as the
approved method for playing Life-Safety Police for those who have differing
views. Not only is it misguided (if arguably well-intentioned), but it's also
a dollar-expensive manner of living - if that's of any importance- and (also
arguably) likely diminishes one's 'life adventure quotient.'

Bob W.

  #18  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

I hated trading in my 42-year-old Pioneer Thin Pack, but following the
unfortunate experience of a local pilot (injuries on landing in high
winds), I decided I needed something better.Â* So I bought an Aviator
P-124 ram air emergency parachute.Â* I had the Air Force training in
round parachutes, but I took training in ram air at the local jump
club.Â* I couldn't be happier with my choice.

Yes, it was expensive at $2,700 for the rig and $1,000 for 7 solo jumps,
but I now have no concerns about leaving the aircraft or safely
maneuvering to the landing point of my choosing.

On 6/2/2018 9:35 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I think the acid wash took 5 years to show up on my softie. Not sure what might have reared it's head later, as at 20 years, I though I had sweated enough on the chute and purchased a new one. With all due respect, your logic jump, that a glider made of petroleum products isn't limited to a 20 year usable lifespan then a petroleum base chute should be either. This jump is not based in fact, logic, nor science. Hell, even petroleum has a very limited life. How would you like to drive your new car on petro that is 5 years old let alone 20? I have a feeling it would not drive. The "we" in "we fly 50+ plus year old Schweizers, is singular, as I don't fly 50 plus year old Schweizers, this has been covered on other threads about the state of soaring in America. Having said that, I do have a fair amount of time in 75 + year old WWII aircraft, that had been lovingly rebuilt. I flew those aircraft wearing a chute that was less than 20 years old.
Twenty years is a lot of wear an tear. You should have seen me twenty years ago.


On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 3:42:33 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Acid mesh problem was a manufacturing error that took a lot less than 20 years to show up. Replacing parachutes every 20 years wouldn't have avoided anything. Do you throw out your glass gliders when they are 21 years old? Parachutes and glass gliders are both made out of petroleum if one can't be determined to be safe after 20 years neither can the other. It's funny we fly 50+ plus year old Schweizers that have spent their lives tied down outside yet some try to convince us that a parachute that spends most of its life in a bag stored in a closet is unairworthy at 21 years old.


--
Dan, 5J
  #19  
Old June 2nd 18, 07:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,383
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

Agreed on training. Learning on you way out the first time likely leads to broken body bits.
At a minimum, call a local jump school, maybe a bunch of local glider pilots can go through basic training without an actual jump (I have issues with height and leaving a perfectly good aircraft.....;-)).
This can be done for pretty cheap and at least you have a marginal clue.

Who knows, maybe you will do an actual jump?!?!
Better may be do an actual jump in your own chute YMMV.....

Reminds me of a known glider pilot at a contest. There was a midair within site of the home field. He was a sport jumper, bailed and sorta thought, "if I'm jumping, may as well as make it fun.....".
Did a delayed opening.
Last anyone on the field saw, he was freefalling.........argghhhhhh.
He was fine, call to glider insurance......
  #20  
Old June 2nd 18, 09:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Rigger who will pack a 20 year old chute?

I was scared absolutely ****less on every flight, watching the
altimeter, knowing I'd have to jump.Â* Then, once outside and hanging off
the wing strut, all fear was gone.Â* The cool breeze in my face at
10,000' MSL made me impatient for the instructor's command, "Arch and
go!".Â* After that it was pure heaven maneuvering the canopy, entering
downwind, base, and final to the touchdown circle.

The injured pilot I mentioned earlier was an experienced
paratrooper/jump master with many jumps to his credit.Â* The winds were
high and terrain was rough.

On 6/2/2018 12:28 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Agreed on training. Learning on you way out the first time likely leads to broken body bits.
At a minimum, call a local jump school, maybe a bunch of local glider pilots can go through basic training without an actual jump (I have issues with height and leaving a perfectly good aircraft.....;-)).
This can be done for pretty cheap and at least you have a marginal clue.

Who knows, maybe you will do an actual jump?!?!
Better may be do an actual jump in your own chute YMMV.....

Reminds me of a known glider pilot at a contest. There was a midair within site of the home field. He was a sport jumper, bailed and sorta thought, "if I'm jumping, may as well as make it fun.....".
Did a delayed opening.
Last anyone on the field saw, he was freefalling.........argghhhhhh.
He was fine, call to glider insurance......


--
Dan, 5J
 




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