"Requesting lower"

requesting cruise at 5000 gives me everything I want. ATC if granting
it knows what's going on. If it was busy I'd just request lower.

And Mooneys, to answer someone else's question, sometimes find
themselves in head winds.
I wouldn't fly that high in a head wind of course, but a 10000 foot
change in altitide at those speeds makes it easy for others to
understand what's going on.
On Jan 17, 11:16 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
Tony wrote:
So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?Your first mistake is to say you're flying a Mooney in your post but
then say your're only doing 120 knots GS. Maybe a super headwind???
That's actually not a trivial question. The answer seen to be that its
controller specific. Certainly if you are IFR you just says "Mooney 94v
would like to start down", or "Mooney 94v, can we get lower" (sometimes
you don't actually know the altitude they can drop you to since that
close to the airport you are often on vectors.) The same if you are in
class B or C.

However, if you are just VFR in class E the answer is "it depends". If
you tell them your going lower about 60% of controllers will say
"You're VFR, why are you telling me this?". If you don't say anything
about 30% will say "please let me know if you are decending". Of course
sometimes you can tell if they are trying to squeeze you into a slot,
but othertimes it just seems to be the controller. This has often
irritated me but VFR procedures are probably at the bottom of the FAA's
list.

-Robert, CFII

Robert M. Gary writes:

Cancel IFR 100nm out? At 120 knots that's almost an hour outside your
destination.

So?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

Cancel IFR 100nm out? At 120 knots that's almost an hour outside your
destination.

So?

So what' s the point of filing IFR if you're going to cancel an hour
outside your destination just because you want lower?

-Robert, CFII

Robert M. Gary writes:

So what' s the point of filing IFR if you're going to cancel an hour
outside your destination just because you want lower?

Because you had to fly through IMC to get that far, and you want to
fly VFR once the weather permits?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article . com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

Cancel IFR 100nm out? At 120 knots that's almost an hour outside your
destination.

So?

So what' s the point of filing IFR if you're going to cancel an hour
outside your destination just because you want lower?

-Robert, CFII

I was joking a little when I suggested "Cancel IFR", but only a little.
IFR gives you certain advantages and certain disadvantages. Unlike the
airlines, us part 91 guys get to pick whether operating under VFR or IFR
works more to our advantage. Sometimes, the easiest way to get what you
want is to cancel.

In this specific case, however, the scenario as put to us was that the
pilot expected that center would be able to grant him anything he wanted.
So, he should just ask for what he wants. As I remember, he was looking to
get down to 5000 from his current 11,000, but slowly. Any of the following
would probably work and allow him to keep his IFR if that's what he wanted:

"Request cruise 11,000".

"Request block 5000 to 11,000" (somewhat silly).

"Request pilot's discretion down to 5000"

"Hey center, I'd like to start a nice slow descent down to 5000, you cool
with that?"

Interesting point of discussion., Tom. If I maintain the same ground
speed I'll be touching down (assuming straight in yada yada yada) in 50
minutes. If I gain an average of say 5 kts maintaining the same power
it will be 48 minutes. I figure I invested fuel to get to altitude (not
that 11000 feet flying into a headwind would have been a wise
investment -- how about I say I'm in a 172?) I'll get a little of it
back on the way down.

The thing I like about the Mooney is, it really is clean
aerodynamically. I had a friend who flew gliders and Mooneys, and when
he felt playful on a day with good thermals he's go to idle cutoff in
his M20 and pretend to be a glider for a half hour or so. He showed me
how to do that. He had a nice touch with gliders, gave me the front
seat and the yoke in one a long time ago. I think I bruised his knees I
was yanking the yoke around so much! Total logged time in gliders -- a
fraction of an hour. Total time in a Mooney pretending to be a glider?
Probably a couple of hours. The IO 360 in front starts every time, but
depending on an air start even with a windmilling prop pushes me
outside my own envelope.

To clear up another point -- I do like the idea of saying "Yo, Boston
Center, Mooney XYZ wants to start downhill slowly -- OK with you?" but
I'd rather just ask for permission to cruise at 5000. If granted, I own
the airspace between where I am and 5000 and can start down slowly,
then make additional requests as I get closer in. In real life a long
time ago going into KBED with nice tailwinds at altitude late at night,
when I requested lower a long way out (I probably had 190 kts over the
ground) ATC gave me cruise at 9000, and when I got close to that,
cruise at 7000, and so on. There was opposite direction traffic on the
airway, the restrictions allowed it time to get under me.

It's fun to talk about, but as most of us know, a LOT more fun to do.






On Jan 17, 9:54 am, Thomas Borchert
wrote:
Tony,

What would you do?Same, expect for the "reduce power" part. Why not get some of the time
back that you lost during climb?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Roy,

"Hey center, I'd like to start a nice slow descent down to 5000, you cool
with that?"


Please, with that "CFII" proudly added to your name, don't tell me you
actually teach something like that.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 18 Jan 2007 06:16:19 -0800, "Tony" wrote in
.com:

I had a friend who flew gliders and Mooneys, and when
he felt playful on a day with good thermals he's go to idle cutoff in
his M20 and pretend to be a glider for a half hour or so.

That works in a C-150 too. I used to do it over the Antelope
Valley/Mojave Desert in the early '70s. Thermal lift can be quite
strong there at times.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:12:44 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote:

Roy,

"Hey center, I'd like to start a nice slow descent down to 5000, you cool
with that?"


Please, with that "CFII" proudly added to your name, don't tell me you
actually teach something like that.

I guess it's hard to see Roy's tongue stuck firmly in his cheek in a usenet
posting. :-)
-Jay-

Jay,

I guess it's hard to see Roy's tongue stuck firmly in his cheek in a usenet
posting. :-)


Maybe. But I've heard too much stuff like that on the frequencies between the
"uh,ah,uh, ah" stutterings of beginners and the unreadable jargon of the
"pros". Actually, the pros are often worse. Don't forget, I look at this from
a non-native speaker perspective. When I fly in the US and someone uses ole'
boy slang, it's real easy to have misunderstandings. That's why there are
preset phrases even for cool airline captains. They better use them.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)