When to acknowledge ATC

Jose wrote:
Class B airspace
requires ATC to tell you that you are cleared into it. So if ATC tells
you 'radar contact location, altimeter xx.xx', you're cleared through
that space where he's controlling


No. As you said, Class B airspace requires ATC to tell you you are
cleared into it. You need to hear "Cleared through the Bravo airspace"
or somesuch.

Nope, you just have to have a clearance. "Cleared into/through the
[NAME] Class Bravo" is just one form of it (and the safest for VFR's).

Class B airspace
requires ATC to tell you that you are cleared into it. So if ATC tells
you 'radar contact location, altimeter xx.xx', you're cleared through
that space where he's controlling



No. As you said, Class B airspace requires ATC to tell you you are cleared into it. You need to hear "Cleared through the Bravo airspace" or somesuch.

Nope, you just have to have a clearance. "Cleared into/through the
[NAME] Class Bravo" is just one form of it (and the safest for VFR's).

I stand corrected (but I will still ask for the magic words rather than
risk coming to the attention of the FAA!)

In any case, "radar contact location, altimiter xx.xx" is not a clearance.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com, Andrew wrote:
ATC says "radar contact, 20 miles south of XYZ, proceed on course". Do
you acknowledge this transmission?

Yes, but only with my callsign (abbreviated when applicable).

How about when ATC says "altimeter
setting 2992" on your first contact after a handoff? Does this require
acknowledgement?

And a readback. You want to know that both you and the controller are
working off the same altimeter setting or Bad Stuff may happen. My
readback is pretty short ('two niner niner two, november four one
bravo')

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Altimeter settings don't tend to vary a great deal from one controller to
the next. If you're issued one that differs by more than a few points from
the previous then it's a good idea to check on it.

I rarely get an altimeter setting from a controller anyway. I make a point of
picking up the setting from AWOS stations in flight and from ATIS before arrival
or departure. As long as you tell the controller you have the ATIS, about the
only time they'll give you the setting is as a gentle notice that you don't seem
to be flying at the altitude at which you're supposed to be.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Jose wrote:

No. As you said, Class B airspace requires ATC to tell you you are
cleared into it. You need to hear "Cleared through the Bravo airspace"
or somesuch.

The last clearance I got from New York ran something like "November 3162 Kebec,
climb to 2500 feet, heading 355, stay west of the river, report at the Hudson
tunnel."

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Altimeter settings don't tend to vary a great deal from one controller to
the next. If you're issued one that differs by more than a few points from
the previous then it's a good idea to check on it.

During my short three years in the air, I had one IFR flight about a month
ago where the pressure difference between three approach facilities
(Syracuse to Buffalo, actual distance around 150nm) was almost 3/4's of an
inch. That equated to about 700 feet difference in altitude from start to
finish.

I recall a few of the airline pilots that morning were doing double-takes
and commenting on this dropping pressure as they flew west.

--
Peter


















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"George Patterson"
Jose wrote:

No. As you said, Class B airspace requires ATC to tell you you are
cleared into it. You need to hear "Cleared through the Bravo airspace"
or somesuch.

The last clearance I got from New York ran something like "November 3162
Kebec, climb to 2500 feet, heading 355, stay west of the river, report at
the Hudson tunnel."

Ask for the clearance. You're in violation without it. ATC should know
better.

moo

"George Patterson"

Altimeter settings don't tend to vary a great deal from one controller to
the next. If you're issued one that differs by more than a few points
from the previous then it's a good idea to check on it.

I rarely get an altimeter setting from a controller anyway. I make a point
of picking up the setting from AWOS stations in flight and from ATIS
before arrival or departure. As long as you tell the controller you have
the ATIS, about the only time they'll give you the setting is as a gentle
notice that you don't seem to be flying at the altitude at which you're
supposed to be.

No. They give you an altimeter setting almost every time you enter the
space they're working on initial contact. The point of this is that it
results in all aircraft in close proximity showing near identical altimeter
readings. You should also give the controller your altitude when you're
level after any change. Where do you fly where ATC doesn't give you the
setting on initial contact?

moo

"Peter R." wrote in message \

During my short three years in the air, I had one IFR flight about a month
ago where the pressure difference between three approach facilities
(Syracuse to Buffalo, actual distance around 150nm) was almost 3/4's of an
inch. That equated to about 700 feet difference in altitude from start to
finish.

I recall a few of the airline pilots that morning were doing double-takes
and commenting on this dropping pressure as they flew west.

Funny that. I flew from Toronto to NYC around that time. Maybe the same
day. I was astounded at the rate of change in settings. Never seen that
happen before.

moo

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Ron Natalie wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

If you're working in any sort of Class C or D airspace, his
response to you is in fact clearance into that airspace.

No clearance is required.

For Class C airspace, 2-way communication is the clearance into
that airspace. No, ATC doesn't ahve to 'clear' you into it, but the
communication is the clearance as is.

So if he
responds, you can fly through unless ATC tells you 'remain outside
Class x Airspace'. Then you must read back something.

The last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. If I call and he answers,
that's two-way communciation and that's all that's required.

If ATC tells you to remain outside a certain class airspace,
you must read that back and remain outside that airspace until he
clears you into it. Yes, it establishes communication, and normally
that is all that's needed. but ATC's actual notification of 'remain
outside Class x airspace' (where x is B, or C) overrides your clearance
into that airspace. You will need to remain outside that airspace until
told otherwise.

Class B airspace
requires ATC to tell you that you are cleared into it. So if ATC tells
you 'radar contact location, altimeter xx.xx', you're cleared through
that space where he's controlling, establishes 2-way comms, in which
you need to acknowledge that he hears you whether it's a vector he's
given you, or just replying with your callsign, that is all that's
needed. You can reply back with the alt. setting, but it isn't really
necessary.

RADAR CONTACT is not required. Altimeter setting is not required.
Readback is not required. You know he hears you because he responded
to your radio call with your call sign. I'm having a hard time
following your argument.

Actually, for Class B, it does. AIM 3-2-3.d.2 and 3-2-3.e back that:

3-2-3.e: ATC Clearances and Separation. An ATC clearance is
required to enter and operate within Class B airspace. VFR
pilots are provided sequencing and separation from other
aircraft while operating within Class B airspace.

For Class C, AIM 3-2-4.3 states that 2-way comms must be
established, and that is the clearance into/through Class C. But, if
ATC tells you to remain outside of it, you *MUST* remain outside of it
until told otherwise. Plus, a readback of that would be required.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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