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#11
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vfr on top
Steven P. McNicoll writes:
You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion. But without the guaranteed services of a preexisting IFR clearance. You could ask for a pop-up IFR clearance if you have to reenter IMC, but there's no guarantee that you'll get it, or at least no guarantee that you'll get it immediately. By staying IFR you don't have to worry about that. Being VFR-on-top lets you keep the security of IFR while allowing a bit more VFR-style flexibility. |
#12
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vfr on top
On Feb 20, 12:38*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes: Required to accommodate IFR? *If traffic or SUA does not allow the issuance of that IFR clearance to climb through the clouds it's not going to be issued. ATC cannot deny service to IFR flights once a clearance has been issued, so once you've started your IFR flight they cannot cut you off. Flight following, on the other hand, is at the discretion of ATC, based on the controllers' workload and other considerations. So, while you're guaranteed to continue getting IFR services once you've got them, if you cancel IFR and then request flight following, there's no guarantee that you'll get it. Read my message again. |
#13
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vfr on top
On Feb 20, 12:40*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes: You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion. But without the guaranteed services of a preexisting IFR clearance. You could ask for a pop-up IFR clearance if you have to reenter IMC, but there's no guarantee that you'll get it, or at least no guarantee that you'll get it immediately. By staying IFR you don't have to worry about that. Being VFR-on-top lets you keep the security of IFR while allowing a bit more VFR-style flexibility. You're drifting too far off the issue here. What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel? |
#14
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vfr on top
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 Mxsmanic wrote: A Guy Called Tyketto writes: You can already do that with VFR w/flight following. Not if you have to fly through clouds to get to your cruising altitude. While you have the option of cancelling IFR once you are in VMC, ATC is not required to provide flight following, whereas it is required to accommodate IFR. I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following. What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that you are going to change your altitude. What you said above implies that if you had FEW120 BKN200, you'd have to pick up IFR to get through the first layer to fly VFR at 14500. That doesn't even remotely make sense. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFLgEGSyBkZmuMZ8L8RAj+1AJ4sCO3v3gE5bo2UQzapjZ NXFK7uBACgoY4q iroyDPgz0+u2Ia8YvQMwOK4= =XZrI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#15
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vfr on top
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 Steven P. McNicoll wrote: On Feb 15, 4:21?am, Mxsmanic wrote: Myname writes: What are the advantages of vfr-on-top in the real world? I understand the ifr to vfr-on-top then cancel, but what about other uses? The main advantage is that it allows a pilot to choose his altitude at his discretion, within broad limits, rather than request approval for every change of altitude from ATC. You can do that under VFR with even broader limits on altitude and the additional advantage of altering your route at your discretion. Thank you for this, Stephen. This completely backs up what I've been saying. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFLgEIWyBkZmuMZ8L8RApi9AKCqDb+05K77EQC36YcaSx qAvmgefACfTzph HWCr4z+n/zl9Uoa1OZQH44A= =MF1s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#16
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vfr on top
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following. What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that you are going to change your altitude. You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude when VFR with flight following. |
#17
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vfr on top
Steven P. McNicoll writes:
You're drifting too far off the issue here. What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel? VFR-on-top is still flight under IFR. Cancelling IFR and switching to VFR is not. If you anticipate that some remaining portion of the flight will require IFR, it makes sense to remain under IFR with VFR-on-top, rather than cancel it. |
#18
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vfr on top
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote: I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following. What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that you are going to change your altitude. You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude when VFR with flight following. It may not be a firm requirement, but it is recommended. AIM section 4-1-15 paragraph b.2 says: "Pilots should also inform the controller when changing VFR cruising altitude. " http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...01.html#4-1-15 |
#19
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vfr on top
Mike Adams wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: A Guy Called Tyketto wrote: I never said that ATC was required to provide flight following. What I said is that you as the pilot have the option of changing your altitude if you are VFR w/flight following, just by notifying ATC that you are going to change your altitude. You do not need to notify ATC that you are going to change altitude when VFR with flight following. It may not be a firm requirement, but it is recommended. AIM section 4-1-15 paragraph b.2 says: "Pilots should also inform the controller when changing VFR cruising altitude. " http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...01.html#4-1-15 So, then, definitely not a firm requirement. |
#20
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vfr on top
On Feb 20, 3:17*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll writes: You're drifting too far off the issue here. *What are the advantages of *IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel? VFR-on-top is still flight under IFR. Cancelling IFR and switching to VFR is not. If you anticipate that some remaining portion of the flight will require IFR, it makes sense to remain under IFR with VFR-on-top, rather than cancel it. We're not talking about operating VFR-on-top. The question is, "What are the advantages of IFR to VFR-on-top then cancel over IFR to VFR then cancel?" Once you cancel you're VFR in each case. |
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