Can Branson Charge For Flights In An Experimental Aircraft?

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:31:55 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in
:

cavalamb himself wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
Is Branson going to certify White Knight Two and SpaceShipTwo?



When has FAA ever been involved space craft systems?

Damn now I have to back up Larry.


http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...ast/human_spac
e_flight_reqs/

The regulations also establish requirements for crew notification,
medical qualifications and training, as well as requirements
governing environmental control and life support systems. They
also require a launch vehicle operator to verify the integrated
performance of a vehicles hardware and any software in an
operational environment. An operator must successfully verify the
integrated performance of a vehicle's hardware and any software in
an operational flight environment before allowing any space flight
participant on board. Verificatioin [sic] must include flight
testing.

So it would seem that the operator of an ostensibly uncertified
aircraft, that can truly be considered experimental in my opinion, is
authorized by the FAA to "verify" the spacecraft is safe for flight.

But that doesn't address Sec. 91.319's prohibition against flying
paying passengers in experimental aircraft, does it?


Oh you better get out to Mojave and warn Burt about this, Lar.

Don't forget to bring your speed gun.


Bertie

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:57:53 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote in
:

On Jan 28, 9:04*am, Larry Dighera wrote:
Is Branson going to certify White Knight Two and SpaceShipTwo?

I didn't see anything in the article that suggested the vehicle would
be certified as experimental when passengers were riding.

That was a presumably erroneous assumption on my part.

I would assume he would have the certificate before the paying pax arrived.


It would appear that Part 91 may not apply in the case of space
flight, as the FAA seems to have implemented new Parts for that:


http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...t/regulations/
Commercial Space Transportation Regulations

Regulations
Part 400 — Bases and Scope
Part 401 — Organization and Definitions
Part 404 — Regulations and Licensing Requirements
Part 405 — Investigations and Enforcement
Part 406 — Investigations, Enforcement, and Administrative Review
Part 413 — License Application Procedures
Part 414 — Safety Approvals
Part 415 — Launch License
Part 417 — Launch Safety
Part 420 — License to Operate a Launch Site
Part 431 — Launch and Reentry of a Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV)
Part 433 — License to Operate a Reentry Site
Part 435 — Reentry of a Reentry Vehicle Other than a Reusable
Launch Vehicle (RLV)
Part 437 — Experimental Permits
Part 440 — Financial Responsibility
Part 460 — Human Space Flight Requirements
Complete FAA/AST Regulations, 14 CFR Chapter III (PDF, 4.4 MB)
Miscellaneous Changes to Commercial Space Transportation
Regulations; Final Rule (PDF) (8/31/2006)



http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...2.9.24&idno=14
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space

PART 460—HUMAN SPACE FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS

Subpart A—Launch and Reentry with Crew

§ 460.1 Scope.
§ 460.3 Applicability.
§ 460.5 Crew qualifications and training.
§ 460.7 Operator training of crew.
§ 460.9 Informing crew of risk.
§ 460.11 Environmental control and life support systems.
§ 460.13 Smoke detection and fire suppression.
§ 460.15 Human factors.
§ 460.17 Verification program.
§ 460.19 Crew waiver of claims against U.S. Government.
§§ 460.20-460.40 [Reserved]


Subpart B—Launch and Reentry with a Space Flight participant

§ 460.41 Scope.
§ 460.43 Applicability.
§ 460.45 Operator informing space flight participant of risk.
§ 460.47 [Reserved]
§ 460.49 Space flight participant waiver of claims against U.S.
Government.
§ 460.51 Space flight participant training.
§ 460.53 Security.


Without having digested all the new regulations, I presume it is the
"§ 460.49 Space flight participant waiver of claims against U.S.
Government" that permits commercial operations. It's probably clearly
buried somewhere in he
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...2.9.22&idno=14

In article tHonj.10$9g.9@trndny07,
"Steve Foley" wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"cavalamb himself" wrote in message
...

When has FAA ever been involved space craft systems?


From the start.



Did the Soviets check with the FAA when they launched Sputnik?

Wasn't manned, was it?

In article 5Vonj.9$4f.8@trndny06,
"Steve Foley" wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:tHonj.10$9g.9@trndny07...

Did the Soviets check with the FAA when they launched Sputnik?


Doubtful. Why do you ask?



You stated the FAA has been involved 'since the start'.

The Start was in 1957.

A bit previous to passenger flight, that.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:5Vonj.9$4f.8@trndny06...

You stated the FAA has been involved 'since the start'.

The Start was in 1957.


There was no US space program prior to the launch of Sputnik I? Is that
what you're saying?



No. I'm saying that your statement regarding the FAA's involvement with
space craft systems "From the Start" is wrong.

"The Start" was in the Soviet Union.

The FAA Was not involved.

Is that clear enough for you?

On Jan 28, 12:40 pm, "Steve Foley" wrote:

No. I'm saying that your statement regarding the FAA's involvement with
space craft systems "From the Start" is wrong.

"The Start" was in the Soviet Union.

The FAA Was not involved.

Is that clear enough for you?


I see.

Because the FAA was not involved with the Soviet space program you've
concluded there was no FAA involvement in the US space program prior
to October 4, 1957.

Your conclusion is incorrect.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...
On Jan 28, 12:40 pm, "Steve Foley" wrote:

No. I'm saying that your statement regarding the FAA's involvement with
space craft systems "From the Start" is wrong.

"The Start" was in the Soviet Union.

The FAA Was not involved.

Is that clear enough for you?


I see.

Because the FAA was not involved with the Soviet space program you've
concluded there was no FAA involvement in the US space program prior
to October 4, 1957.

Your conclusion is incorrect.


I made no such statement.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:Lwpnj.9$eg.1@trndny01...

I made no such statement.


I didn't say you did.

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is Branson going to certify White Knight Two and SpaceShipTwo?



When has FAA ever been involved space craft systems?

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

cavalamb himself wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

Is Branson going to certify White Knight Two and SpaceShipTwo?



When has FAA ever been involved space craft systems?


Damn now I have to back up Larry.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...e_flight_reqs/



Ahh! Just last year...